How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[DA Baracus]

4 hours ago, GeorgiosSamaras said:

I'll respond to this because as far as I can see it's the most comprehensive answer to my post, but trying to answer points raised by others within it.

We’ve played at Fir Park twice this season, both times the Celtic end was full and there was 5000 empty seats in the rest of the stadium. Motherwell could have sold significantly more tickets and received a relative financial windfall, they chose not to. Not claiming it would not bridge the financial gulf between the clubs but it is cutting your nose off to spite your face. 

Rangers success in the 1990s was built on a limitless overdraft from the BoS. It was the only sustained period of dominance they’ve had since the 1950s and it was entirely artificial, spending cash they didn’t have. Fergus could have let Celtic die as Rangers fans let their club die in 2012 but he paid our debts. He could have put our financial security in jeopardy by borrowing money we didn’t have as our rivals did. He didn’t, he set in motion a plan to build sustainable success. 

Despite similar roots Hibs have long taken a different path. Celtic stand alone in terms of embracing their Irish identity. That identity and support is passed down through generations. I would presume most on here support their team because their dad or another family member did too. Idea of saying I live in Blantyre so I should go 3 miles to New Douglas Park instead of 6 miles Celtic Park is nuts. Same principle applies to those who stay in other parts of Scotland or Ireland. People don’t pick their team with a map and a ruler. 

Every team has to sell their prize assets, Celtic are no different to other Scottish teams in that regard. Ange has brought in more than he spent. I’d love to have Tierney, Van Dijk and Dembele in the team but we wouldn’t have the squad we have just now without a conveyer belt of players heading out. 

The buzz around Celtic just now isn’t just because they are winning, it’s the style of football they are playing. I seen an Aberdeen fan respond to me scoffing at the idea of actually trying to play football against us. What chance does Scottish football have when a big team with a European trophy are content with creating 0 chances, having 20% of the ball and sitting 11 men behind the ball at home, and still losing, just because it kept the score down? As others have mentioned, we got pumped by Real Madrid and Leipzig this year.  No excuses about budgets, we lost because we faced better teams. Celtic fans aren’t complaining because we went toe to toe with them and had a go anyway.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Put away your boaby. Jota started greeting when he scored a consolation against Real Madrid in a 5-1 tanking.

You’re small time.

[Falcor Roar]

10 hours ago, GeorgiosSamaras said:

Rangers success in the 1990s was built on a limitless overdraft from the BoS. It was the only sustained period of dominance they’ve had since the 1950s and it was entirely artificial, spending cash they didn’t have. Fergus could have let Celtic die as Rangers fans let their club die in 2012 but he paid our debts. He could have put our financial security in jeopardy by borrowing money we didn’t have as our rivals did. He didn’t, he set in motion a plan to build sustainable success. 

Despite similar roots Hibs have long taken a different path. Celtic stand alone in terms of embracing their Irish identity. That identity and support is passed down through generations. I would presume most on here support their team because their dad or another family member did too. Idea of saying I live in Blantyre so I should go 3 miles to New Douglas Park instead of 6 miles Celtic Park is nuts. Same principle applies to those who stay in other parts of Scotland or Ireland. People don’t pick their team with a map and a ruler. 

You've found a way to explain how you've been cheated out of 30 in a row. I bet you'd love to win 30 titles in a row, you'd see nothing hollow in that. How do you explain season 93/94 when you finished 4th though?

My father is a Celtic fan. My mother is from Coatbridge, her mother's family are all Irish. I didn't have to support Celtic as well and I don't. Not sure why that's nuts. 

[kennie makevin]

14 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

You're one of the reasonable ones .... you aligning with anything Georgios is saying?

There are no 'reasonable' Celtic ones , just as there are no 'reasonable' Rangers ones. Reasonable people do not support either of those vile clubs.

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, kennie makevin said:

There are no 'reasonable' Celtic ones , just as there are no 'reasonable' Rangers ones. Reasonable people do not support either of those vile clubs.

Statements like this are silly and don’t help the argument. 

[kennie makevin]

14 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

I can only speak for my dealings

You can call someone who seriously believes that Celtic once winning the European Cup is the greatest achievement in the history of world football many thing, I'm not sure ' reasonable' is one of them. 'Delusional' perhaps, a fantasist, almost certainly. A nice and harmless chap, more than likely, but not ' reasonable '.  He's very good at memes and GIFs though, highly droll !

[kennie makevin]

7 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Statements like this are silly and don’t help the argument. 

Statements like that are the argument, young sir.  However if you think that Glasgow Rangers & Glasgow Celtic are as fine and dandy as the Dons, for example, then fine. I don't think they are. They pander too and encourage the worst and most corrosive elements of west of Scotland 'culture', purely for financial gain. Scottish football but more importantly, Scottish society, would be a better place if they didn't exist. But what do I know, it's only an opinion.

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by kennie makevin

[AndyM]

13 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

Maybe that was the alternative...

Sophie's choice that.....

[Dons_1988]

20 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

Statements like that are the argument, young sir.  However if you think that Glasgow Rangers & Glasgow Celtic are as fine and dandy as the Dons, for example, then fine. I don't think they are. They pander too and encourage the worst and most corrosive elements of west of Scotland 'culture', purely for financial gain. Scottish football but more importantly, Scottish society, would be a better place if they didn't exist. But what do I know, it's only an opinion.

 

But that’s a different argument to what I challenged. Stating that no reasonable support them isn’t true. 

[HibsFan]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

But that’s a different argument to what I challenged. Stating that no reasonable support them isn’t true. 

I wouldn’t go as far as to say no reasonable person could support them, but you must admit that it certainly takes a stunted, child-like mindset to pick a team because they win all the team and never manage to get bored of it. They make Marvel movies that are less one-sided and more interesting than Celtic’s current and Rangers’ 1990s dominance.

Edited March 15, 2023 by HibsFan

[Dons_1988]

21 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

I wouldn’t go as far as to say no reasonable person could support them, but you must admit that it certainly takes a stunted, child-like mindset to pick a team because they win all the team and never manage to get bored of it. They make Marvel movies that are less one-sided and more interesting than Celtic’s current and Rangers’ 1990s dominance.

Yeah look there’s a lot of issues around supporting the old firm, I just think sweeping statements like that aren’t great and instantly pisses otherwise reasonable people off. 

I’ve always thought there are loads of casual fans who gravitate towards them because being a football fan is a hobby, they can watch on tv most weeks, get to the odd game, and they don’t really know or care about how the current structure of the game is unfair. It wouldn’t ever cross their mind that Celtic in the champions league has a negative impact on someone supporting hibs or Aberdeen. 

That doesn’t make them unreasonable, just a bit ignorant and clearly, a glory hunter. 

But aye, the ones who live and breathe it and still believe in celtics Tory economics to keep the status quo? They’re certainly child like and quite frankly fucking selfish. 

[gannonball]

34 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

I wouldn’t go as far as to say no reasonable person could support them, but you must admit that it certainly takes a stunted, child-like mindset to pick a team because they win all the team and never manage to get bored of it. They make Marvel movies that are less one-sided and more interesting than Celtic’s current and Rangers’ 1990s dominance.

This doesn't really add up for me as most get told who they support at childhood by family members or just copy whoever their pals support at school. At that stage I never really knew the history of dominance and just liked to have a new strip to kick a ball about. Of course it's different if you decide supporting a team in your more adult years as you can research the history etc but realistically the vast majority support the same team from childhood.

Edited March 15, 2023 by gannonball

[HibsFan]

15 minutes ago, gannonball said:

This doesn't really add up for me as most get told who they support at childhood by family members or just copy whoever their pals support at school. At that stage I never really knew the history of dominance and just liked to have a new strip to kick a ball about. Of course it's different if you decide supporting a team in your more adult years as you can research the history etc but realistically the vast majority support the same team from childhood.

I agree with your point, but if Celtic or Rangers didn’t win anything for thirty seasons straight then I think you’d see some (most) of those “I support the same team I supported as a kid) fans vanish into thin air; only to magically reappear when they started dominating again.

[gannonball]

Just now, HibsFan said:

I agree with your point, but if Celtic or Rangers didn’t win anything for thirty seasons straight then I think you’d see some (most) of those “I support the same team I supported as a kid) fans vanish into thin air; only to magically reappear when they started dominating again.

Also a fair point tbh, I worked with people for years and didn't realise they were Rangers fans untill they won a title during covid. Not quite Scottish football related same could be said for a lot of fans of other clubs, using work again alot of my colleagues used to be teesiders some never talked about football but when they were on that European run in they started going a fair bit. Clubs will always have glory hunters and attendances usually reflect that 

[Sergeant Wilson]

I'm a Nazi. I don't really go along with all the extermination thing. Obviously, I keep that to myself at rallies etc. Am I reasonable too?

[Kapowzer]

Was yer da a Nazi though?

On your way to Munich, did you pass by Tory Party, English Defence League and the Front National on the way?

Edited March 15, 2023 by Kapowzer

[gannonball]

Eh, not quite sure supporting a football team and a political organisation are quite the same chaps. As much as you want it to be for some bizarre reason.

[Sergeant Wilson]

32 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

Was yer da a Nazi though?

From his socks up.

[Dundee Hibernian]

24 minutes ago, gannonball said:

Eh, not quite sure supporting a football team and a political organisation are quite the same chaps. As much as you want it to be for some bizarre reason.

You wouldn't think there's any connection between football supporters at Ibrox and Parkhead and political gestures if you visited matches they attend, right enough.

[Kapowzer]

19 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

From his socks up.

*lederhosen