How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[VincentGuerin]

Was chatting to my mate during the game at Parkhead last night (which tells you how tame the atmosphere was) about how almost family-friendly our visits to Celtic Park have become.

Used to be it was a proper riotous affair with folk chucked out left, right, and centre (to be fair, often for hee haw) and real bite to the atmosphere. Last night had absolutely nothing about it. It was dead.

Even when Hearts were ahead and level, it never felt like the result was in any doubt or that anyone really cared. It was all just going through the motions. Fair play to the Celtic fan in grey who got himself wound up enough to take the most obvious bait ever and get himself chucked out. One of few interesting things to happen all night.

It's just a reflection of what the fixture has become. Essentially a waste of time. It was funny passing thousands of Celtic fans on the way to and from the train thinking 'why the f**k do you come and watch this every week?'.

The Hearts end for Pittodrie the weekend after next is sold out, and that's going to be a great day at the fitba. Games against the Old Firm by comparison are just something to get out the way. I can't see a sustainable future in this.

[Monkey Tennis]

I think we need to lose the idea, genuinely, that a more egalitarian game would be vastly more commercially successful than what we have just now.  

It wouldn't make more money overall.  It's just that the money would be more fairly distributed and people like us, with a genuine stake in it rather than a fleeting interest, would like it better.  

Arguing that a more balanced landscape would be better for Sky or whatever, is to miss the point and is actually probably mistaken.

The modern version of football, with all its hideous inequalities at home and abroad, is more commercially attractive and lucrative than it ever was when winners were more varied.  

I don't want the game to make more money.  I'd be very happy indeed for it to make much less, if it was divided and used in a fairer way. 

 

[Shadow Play]

To anyone suggesting salary caps, at what level should they be set? It seems to me the desired level will inevitably directly correlate with the budget of the team you support.

Most football fans complain about the fact that the larger clubs have a much larger budget yet at the same time are quite content about the fact their club have a larger budget than smaller clubs.  I’ve heard very few fans complain when their club sign a player from a smaller club.  Fans never express sadness that the player can no longer play in front of the fans of the club that gave the player his chance in football.

If people are insisting on a salary cap should we set it at a level that clubs like Arbroath and Forfar can compete?   Yes, I appreciate you can set different salary caps according to the league your team is in but what happens if your team gets relegated?  Are we really going to say to a number of players that, despite having contracts, they have to move on despite the fact the club and player are happy to carry on in the lower league?  

[KirkieRR]

If there were some sort of Euro Superleague, and the uglies were drawn into its lower echelons, might be a good thing if promotion andcrelegation were a part of it. After all, they'd surely get relegated and the Next Best team or teams would get to have a season of hiding in Europe.

 

Or something.

[Kapowzer]

9 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Was chatting to my mate during the game at Parkhead last night (which tells you how tame the atmosphere was) about how almost family-friendly our visits to Celtic Park have become.

Used to be it was a proper riotous affair with folk chucked out left, right, and centre (to be fair, often for hee haw) and real bite to the atmosphere. Last night had absolutely nothing about it. It was dead.

Even when Hearts were ahead and level, it never felt like the result was in any doubt or that anyone really cared. It was all just going through the motions. Fair play to the Celtic fan in grey who got himself wound up enough to take the most obvious bait ever and get himself chucked out. One of few interesting things to happen all night.

It's just a reflection of what the fixture has become. Essentially a waste of time. It was funny passing thousands of Celtic fans on the way to and from the train thinking 'why the f**k do you come and watch this every week?'.

The Hearts end for Pittodrie the weekend after next is sold out, and that's going to be a great day at the fitba. Games against the Old Firm by comparison are just something to get out the way. I can't see a sustainable future in this.

I asked a question in another similar thread, 3/4 OF fans answered and its seems the majority of the 110,000 who attend their home games are only about the 4 fixtures a season, the potential of two cup matches, singing songs about another country over 300 years ago and associated bragging rights. Of course the flirting with Europe is a thing because that allows them to buy D listers to keep up with/get the edge when it comes to the other cheek. But so many are bored, fatigue evidenced by how many season ticket holders don't show up with enough pockets of blue and green seats that didn't seem to be the case 10 years ago.

I've genuinely got time for fans of every team in Scotland other than them and even more so for Partick, St Mirren, Morton, Dumbarton, Killie, etc. who like my own are close enough that it wouldn't involve much for more of their town's inhabitants to go join the zombie trail. I like to think we'd got a degree of integrity, optimism, self loathing and general non cunty outlook in our core make up.

I still can't get my head round how the terrorist Tifo at Hampden go the thumbs up and pretty much got zero censure of criticism by politicians or press. Embarrassed that was beamed around the world.

We haven't beat the Hunnorum in the league for 20 years, however I'd happily swap that for the playoff that kept them in the Championship an extra year and the League Cup semi win with 'that' goal from Louis Moult. I'd add Helicopter Sunday too as the delight of seeing Sellik greeting at our stadium was delicious fayre served up so infrequently. However this is tempered with the knowledge due to the duopoly the other cheek are, by default, elated.

The fact that on those occasions we were the toast of the majority of Scottish football makes up for it a wee bit ...... you're all welcome.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Kapowzer

[RandomGuy.]

Salary caps just limit growth and help the status quo dont they? It would almost definitely be linked to income. The "Financial Fair Play" rules have virtually done that.

Its European money thats slayed the beast. Its happened everywhere that teams getting Champions League money consistently end up dominating their league. The main outlier is England, simply because you have about 15 teams there filled with Internationals and with £200m+ invested into the team. Our national income is so low in every other aspect that the European money is just an advantage you cant get past. The other clubs need to find a way to boost all their incomes by ~£10m and we might see a chance of a proper fight, but thats quite clearly not even close to realistic.

Theres never going to be a system where a league randomly deducts 50pts from 2 teams in it, im not even sure FIFA would allow that to happen. 

A super league will happen and lets hope they leave to it. Rumours this morning though that clubs are going to vote in favour of a Colt division being pushed into Tier 6, with everyone moving down a level below it, and being allowed promotion, so i guess we'll never be rid of them one way or another.

Edited March 10, 2023 by RandomGuy.

[Antiochas III]

Salary Caps would only work to change in an NFL style where it is based on league income not team income, and that will never happen as Rangers and Celtic don't want to share with Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen and those clubs don't want to share with the St Johnstone/Motherwell/St Mirren...  

[Aufc]

I mentioned this to my Celtic supporting friends but it must be shite being a Celtic fan. Yea you get to turn up and see your team winning every game but it just strikes me as completely dull. 
 

I don’t agree with stuff like gate money being pooled. That seems slightly unfair. The reality is that the only way we can make it slightly more competitive is increasing the financial appeal of Scottish football and then ensuring a fairer split. 
 

Although I do find it funny when premier league teams moan about fairness. They are quite happy to keep it as a closed shop and let any other teams in as it would dilute the prize money further. 

[RandomGuy.]

14 minutes ago, Aufc said:

Although I do find it funny when premier league teams moan about fairness. They are quite happy to keep it as a closed shop and let any other teams in as it would dilute the prize money further. 

Theres as many spots for teams to be promoted as there is in all the divisions (2), whats "closed shop" about it?

Folk who say it these days, while ignoring the lower league sides who literally did have a closed shop system below them, and even when agreeing to open it up refused to allow an automatic relegation spot, just come across as folk desperate to blame their own shit team never making the top flight on something else.

[coprolite]

Too many Diddy clubs, that's the problem. An Edinburgh United could challenge for the league and a Dundee City would do better than two yo yos from a small city. Even Falkirk has two teams! 

One team per city and regional teams for Fife, Lanarkshire, Forth Valley etc. And colts in the proper league. All with big out of town stadia with ample parking. 

Scottish football needs to modernise and not keep looking back. 

[The_Kincardine]

3 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

I asked a question in another similar thread, 3/4 OF fans answered and its seems the majority of the 110,000 who attend their home games are only about the 4 fixtures a season, the potential of two cup matches, singing songs about another country over 300 years ago and associated bragging rights.

However much we may not like these songs - and I'd not try and justify them - they are about a spat between Scotland's previous king and its then-current king.  They were deposed/proclaimed respectively by Scotland's Claim of Right of 1689.  So this 'another country' patter is a bit misleading.

[Antiochas III]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

Too many Diddy clubs, that's the problem. An Edinburgh United could challenge for the league and a Dundee City would do better than two yo yos from a small city. Even Falkirk has two teams! 

One team per city and regional teams for Fife, Lanarkshire, Forth Valley etc. And colts in the proper league. All with big out of town stadia with ample parking. 

Scottish football needs to modernise and not keep looking back. 

If you did that, there would be no need for Colts as we'd only have enough teams for 1 league.  I agree though, we should have 1 team per city, think we can start with joining Rangers and Celtic into 1.  That will certainly curtail the dominance of Glasgow teams.  

[Guest]

Was brought up supporting one off the arse-cheeks and can remember the 80's when a guaranteed wins for both sides were far from a certainty. As time has went on and I have got older, not necessarily wiser, I almost despise this setup and don't even check results anymore.

The only solution I can see for Scottish Football is for both to leave for a Pan-European League.

But, therein lies a future problem; there are currently 3 B Teams at level 5 of our so called pyramid solely for the soul purpose of the top teams having a foothold in the setup if/when a Euroleague is born.

Over on the Lowland League Forum within Pyramid Section there is a discussion on the 'Celtic & Rangers B Team' thread about a proposal from the hierarchy for a new tier 5 league, go have a read and shake your head in disbelief.

This is the endgame getting top clubs B Teams into the SPFL, apparently if this happens the National Team will suddenly become Croatia.

Nobody in authority cares a jot about your wee club in Angus or Ayrshire or wherever. It's only about keeping the 2 happy enough that these people in office keep their individual place on the gravy train secure.

I now get my football fix from Tier 6 down. Local clubs who love football. But even that is being destroyed by the arse-cheeks now.

My thoughts: Can the pair of them and their Neanderthal followers feck off and let Scottish Football Flourish.

Edited March 10, 2023 by HorseyGhirl

[coprolite]

1 minute ago, Antiochas III said:

If you did that, there would be no need for Colts as we'd only have enough teams for 1 league.  I agree though, we should have 1 team per city, think we can start with joining Rangers and Celtic into 1.  That will certainly curtail the dominance of Glasgow teams.  

18th Century FC

[jamamafegan]

I also think diddy clubs should be growing a backbone and enforcing a policy where their new signings agree they can't make a switch to the either of the Old Firm. If the club makes it perfectly clear to a new signing that 'if a team from England or abroad is interested and you want to speak to them, we won't stand in your way but you cannot join Celtic or Rangers from us whilst under contract' - it might help? I'm not sure if it would work in practise but it could be one way of stopping the OF from strengthening while simultaneously weakening the opposition. 

[kennie makevin]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

Too many Diddy clubs, that's the problem. An Edinburgh United could challenge for the league and a Dundee City would do better than two yo yos from a small city. Even Falkirk has two teams! 

One team per city and regional teams for Fife, Lanarkshire, Forth Valley etc. And colts in the proper league. All with big out of town stadia with ample parking. 

Scottish football needs to modernise and not keep looking back. 

There are only two 'diddy' clubs in Scotland - Glasgow Celtic & Glasgow Rangers.  It is on them and them alone that the Scottish top flight is a pointless joke of a 'competition'. 

[coprolite]

1 minute ago, kennie makevin said:

There are only two 'diddy' clubs in Scotland - Glasgow Celtic & Glasgow Rangers.  It is on them and them alone that the Scottish top flight is a pointless joke of a 'competition'. 

If the other clubs would show the same ambition, we'd be fine. 

[RandomGuy.]

9 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

I also think diddy clubs should be growing a backbone and enforcing a policy where their new signings agree they can't make a switch to the either of the Old Firm. If the club makes it perfectly clear to a new signing that 'if a team from England or abroad is interested and you want to speak to them, we won't stand in your way but you cannot join Celtic or Rangers from us whilst under contract' - it might help? I'm not sure if it would work in practise but it could be one way of stopping the OF from strengthening while simultaneously weakening the opposition. 

I cant see many, if any, players agreeing to that.

You might we even encourage more young players to join them at youth level too, if they thought that was their only chance of playing for either.

Edited March 10, 2023 by RandomGuy.

[AndyM]

14 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Was chatting to my mate during the game at Parkhead last night (which tells you how tame the atmosphere was) about how almost family-friendly our visits to Celtic Park have become.

Used to be it was a proper riotous affair with folk chucked out left, right, and centre (to be fair, often for hee haw) and real bite to the atmosphere. Last night had absolutely nothing about it. It was dead.

Even when Hearts were ahead and level, it never felt like the result was in any doubt or that anyone really cared. It was all just going through the motions. Fair play to the Celtic fan in grey who got himself wound up enough to take the most obvious bait ever and get himself chucked out. One of few interesting things to happen all night.

It's just a reflection of what the fixture has become. Essentially a waste of time. It was funny passing thousands of Celtic fans on the way to and from the train thinking 'why the f**k do you come and watch this every week?'.

The Hearts end for Pittodrie the weekend after next is sold out, and that's going to be a great day at the fitba. Games against the Old Firm by comparison are just something to get out the way. I can't see a sustainable future in this.

I literally have no idea how some of these fans can get themselves in a such a lather and running around as if they've just won the World Cup because they've watched their team with 20 times the budget stick 5 past St Mirren or Kilmarnock. You are right, there is no sustainable future in this.

[Kapowzer]

2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

However much we may not like these songs - and I'd not try and justify them - they are about a spat between Scotland's previous king and its then-current king.  They were deposed/proclaimed respectively by Scotland's Claim of Right of 1689.  So this 'another country' patter is a bit misleading.

I’ll reiterate ….. another country