HibsFan Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Gate money split and a salary cap introduced. Of course, Rangers fans would oppose that - and fair enough - but surely the World's Biggest Socialists™ in the East End would be up for it? 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennie makevin Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, AJF said: I think fans can accept that it is broken without believing it is pointless. You wouldn't get many that would argue against the fact the current set-up in Scotland means Rangers but more so Celtic, are the only teams that have a chance of winning the title. Personally I feel that a structure that allowed competition from a wider variety of teams would be a more appealing one than a personal competition with 1 other team, for obvious reasons. I still wouldn't label that competition we have with Celtic pointless though, just diminished. But I obviously appreciate how it will be different for fans of other clubs. A competition which you can't win is not only pointless it is not a competition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, AJF said: I think fans can accept that it is broken without believing it is pointless. You wouldn't get many that would argue against the fact the current set-up in Scotland means Rangers but more so Celtic, are the only teams that have a chance of winning the title. Personally I feel that a structure that allowed competition from a wider variety of teams would be a more appealing one than a personal competition with 1 other team, for obvious reasons. I still wouldn't label that competition we have with Celtic pointless though, just diminished. But I obviously appreciate how it will be different for fans of other clubs. Here’s how broken it is. You just said you would like a structure that “allowed” competition. Think about that in the context of a sport. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Lex said: No doubt, but they were just about within reach if one of the other city clubs could have put together a great season. In 2013 Celitc won the league with 78 points, they drew seven and lost seven games that season. In 2013 Neil Lennon was in charge at Celtic What you're basically implying is that to make the league more competitive Celtic should be required to always employ a shaved Orangutan with brain damage as manager. And I can see your point. If we combine that with forcing Rangers to go back to not playing Catholics then we'll have a more interesting league 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, HibsFan said: Gate money split and a salary cap introduced. Of course, Rangers fans would oppose that - and fair enough - but surely the World's Biggest Tories in the East End would be up for it? Fixed that for you pal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: In 2013 Neil Lennon was in charge at Celtic What you're basically implying is that to make the league more competitive Celtic should be required to always employ a shaved Orangutan with brain damage as manager. but that would mean Hearts losing their manager... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, HibsFan said: Gate money split and a salary cap introduced. Of course, Rangers fans would oppose that - and fair enough - but surely the World's Biggest Socialists™ in the East End would be up for it? Salary caps are used to ensure profits for club owners. The opposite to socialism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 22 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Here’s how broken it is. You just said you would like a structure that “allowed” competition. Think about that in the context of a sport. I literally agreed with you that it is broken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, AJF said: I literally agreed with you that it is broken. I am just emphasising the point. A sporting competition should really start with it actually being competitive as front and centre of its objectives. Yet this is ingrained in people now that it’s almost like ‘oh, wouldn’t an actual competition be nice!’ Commerciality is running the show and fans have been taken for mugs that what we see is acceptable and the norm. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahemps Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 I think if the European super league happened it would have sparked a sea change across football. I still believe a super league will happen at some point but when and how I am not so sure. The chance of competitive domestic leagues has gone for me, if you look around Europe there are 2-3 out of about 50 leagues that you can point to as being genuinely competitive in the sense they have had different winners. Off the top of my head I think Sweden has had 6-7 winners in the last 20yrs. They still have a 'big' club in Malmo and they even got to the CL group stages but that hasn't led to them killing the competition with a financial disparity. I don't know if they have structure that makes it competitive as I haven't looked too much in to it. A few years ago I heard a reporter (I think it was Miguel Delaney) mention that something like 9 European leagues currently had teams on record winning title runs, Bayern, Juve, RB Salzburg and a few more and this didn't even include Celtic who were on 8 at the time. that is an extraordinary amount. It is broken across the continent. There are plenty people talking and moaning about it but nobody is driving any change, TV money is increasing and fans are still filling stadiums so nothing is likely to change anytime soon. Cross border leagues is the next best solution but I don't know where Scotland would fit in to any sort of cross border league. The OF are in the 'nobody wants you camp' but if they left then I think the rest of Scotland wouldn't have a need for cross border league. I don't subscribe to the notion that Hearts and Aberdeen would just fill in the top 2 and we'd be back to the same scenario. I would expect them and Hibs would become a top 3 but not to the extent that they can't be toppled every so often by the rest. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 A salary-points handicap system. Clubs have a choice. For every £100k their player wage budget goes above the league average (minus OF clubs) then they start the season with a points deduction of, for example, 2 points. This way the richer clubs have a choice. Can stick within the playing budget restrictions and start level with the pack, or they can spend big in the hope they claw the deficit back. This way it’s a far more level playing field and good coaching/ canny recruitment will be far more a factor than simply who has the most money. I haven’t really thought this through, just throwing it out there… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkieRR Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Dundee Hibernian said: Maybe the solution is to bring the arsecheeks' B sides into the Premiership, to provide a 4 way contest for the title! Oh my goodness, not so loud. If the SFA/SPFL/Uglies hear that idea they'll be all over it like chickenpox. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Most salary cap proposals seem to try and combine sustainability and competition concerns by saying "My club shouldn't be able to spend more than it can afford" and "Clubs that can afford to spend more than my club shouldn't be allowed to" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Blue Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Competitiveness doesn't equate with massive financial disparity - you can't have both. Change is required, but it can't happen because of the voting structure (ie greed) enshrined in the top league - and of course it was so created to maximise the various incomes from the "OF pound" to the "slightly less diddy clubs" and sod the rest. So the top league chairmen (they have only themselves to blame) ain't gonna vote for/allow change and the hence the game is Friar Tucked. Options appear to be: 1 - The OF play each other 38 times a season in a separate league of only two clubs (where they can continuously vent their bile to their hearts content) and we have a lower quality but much more interesting "top" league - ain't happening, see above, not to mention the Weegie Polis wouldn't be overly happy 2 - The OF are both towed out to the North Atlantic Ridge and sunk without trace - ain't happening, probably a law against that unfortunately 3 - We get a sensible restructuring with salary caps, fairer funding distribution etc as suggested by several posters in this thread - ain't happening, see above, turkeys don't vote for Xmas etc 4 - We do nothing and all sit back and watch 2 clubs winning every competition for decades to come and the OF get to watch an endless stream of teams attempting to park the bus every week to try to avoid the inevitable hammering ... this one's happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Lex said: No doubt, but they were just about within reach if one of the other city clubs could have put together a great season. In 2013 Celitc won the league with 78 points, they drew seven and lost seven games that season. To give that a bit of context, the current Celtic team have 79 points with 10 games left and Rangers are struggling along in second spot with a meagre 70 points. There was an outside chance someone outside of those two could have won the league between about 2012 and 2016. Now there is no chance and I don't expect any of us will live to see it happen. I used to see that as a missed opportunity too, however on reflection think we did see great seasons from the city clubs over that period. I'd say Aberdeen's performance through 2014/15/16 were all great league campaigns. Broke the fairly rare 70 point mark 3 seasons in a row (75 points in 2015) which is exceptional. Motherwell hit 70 points in 2013 / 2014. Hearts best league return in years was 74 points in 2004 / 2005 which saw them finish second. Aberdeen also hit 73 points in 2018. All great seasons, with four out of six without Rangers in the league, yet none of those points tallies would have bettered the shitest title winning team in years that scraped that paltry 79 points in 2013. I suppose looking at all that, there's an outside chance that the stars could align one season - that 2004 Hearts side or 2015 Aberdeen side could come up against 2013 Celtic and 2005/06 Rangers (who finished on 72 and 73 points) - win those head-to-heads that could actually win them the league. Is it going to happen though? Absolutely not. I think part of the problem is that the every one of the city clubs have at some point been absolutely shite in the last twenty years. And all of them on more than one occasion have been in a mess. No one has really established themselves as a consistent third force. Ever the optimist, I've wondered if the Europa Conference League is finally an opportunity for that to happen. £3m and income from six games before a ball is kicked. It's pennies compared to Rangers and Celtic but is it enough to pull away from the rest and capitalise when that mythical poor season for both Rangers and Celtic comes along? f**k knows. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McQueen Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Play offs to decide the league? Most likely be guaranteed an OF Final too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Ach, I'll just post this again. Still struggling to see its flaws as an effective form of protest. All the non-OF clubs get together and demand a massively different distribution model that presents a much, much more level playing field for clubs. It could involve gate sharing, merchandising being pooled, a requirement for a large chunk of European income to be shared out etc. There would be a need for this model to involve lower league clubs also, so that no cliff face exists. When these demands are rejected by the clubs and spluttered about in the media, the top flight diddies agree ahead of the next full season, that they will field youth sides against the OF, ensuring that they get hammered each and every time. For home matches against the OF, they should urge their own fans to boycott the games, opening the grounds entirely to OF fans if they still want to come. It'll mean that the OF sides take maximum points from everyone else, and the title will rest solely on the 4 OF games. The spectacle for Sky will be shit and thoroughly devalued. Meanwhile, the teams will all compete as usual against each other, meaning the 3rd placed team will be regarded as Champions by actual fans everywhere. A trophy could even be presented. Relegation will still be decided in the traditional way, but as everyone has lost to the OF every time, the outcome will again be entirely reliant on non-OF fixtures. The actual end of season table would not be that vastly different from what we get each year anyway. The difference would be that the others would have stopped pretending that they all take part in a valid competition to win the league. Think how this would capture the imagination. Fans would for the first time be involved in what would be considered the actual title race. This would be an international, sensational media story of the ancient footballing nation that stood up to the injustices of the modern game. The Latest OF league win would be rendered hollower than ever, derived as it would be from just 4 matches against 1 opponent. Meanwhile, we'd all hail our new real champions. No way would those in our game have the courage to do any of this of course, but it's a nice dream. We need the behaviour of our clubs to reflect that we don't need the OF, but they do need us. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Why don't we start by making the lower divisions worse. We could allow B teams into a newly created division between L2 and LL. It'll be brilliant! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Tell Celtic and Rangers to f**k off, and Aberdeen can go for cunting it up for everyone the last time as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgie greatness Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 They’ve announced a crack new marketing department! problem solved close thread 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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