How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[Dons_1988]

6 hours ago, gannonball said:

Tbh I don’t see the structure of Scottish football as the main issue.  They payments out aren’t really any different to other leagues. The gap started to become insurmountable (ignoring EBT’s/heavy year on year losses) when we started getting the European money from the better TV deals at the turn of the millennium . Its  just got bigger  and bigger since then whilst our tv money stagnated. If Hearts can get a few seasons of European money then you never know. On the subject of Europe Scottish clubs getting embarrassed every season in the qualifiers year on year shows how crap we really run our clubs though.

ETA- tbh I didn’t really answer your question but a lot of your posts these days I see are purely about the gap and little else so all I see is moaning and blaming of others.

I go through phases of being vocal about this issue and not but it is a constant that it is true. It’s particularly pissed me off this season seeing absolute nothing games taking place and no one in power or in the media seems to bat an eyelid.

The idea that clubs should just try harder is particularly annoying because this is the plan. This is the business model. You put your top teams at the top so they go into europe and grow the ‘brand’ by playing in the elite competitions. It’s literally the whole idea.

If there was no European football then we might have a punchers chance of someone in power suggesting that teams winning every week by multiple goals without really trying might be a problem in a competition. 

At the end of the day, that’s where my anger really lies, with the people running the game, with the media, with other clubs that are happy to operate under this model. Celtic fans can be a bit infantile and frustrating but they’re not the real issue on this. 

Anyway, I’m bored posting about it so I’ll leave it at that (for a while). 

[Monkey Tennis]

14 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I go through phases of being vocal about this issue and not but it is a constant that it is true. It’s particularly pissed me off this season seeing absolute nothing games taking place and no one in power or in the media seems to bat an eyelid.

The idea that clubs should just try harder is particularly annoying because this is the plan. This is the business model. You put your top teams at the top so they go into europe and grow the ‘brand’ by playing in the elite competitions. It’s literally the whole idea.

If there was no European football then we might have a punchers chance of someone in power suggesting that teams winning every week by multiple goals without really trying might be a problem in a competition. 

At the end of the day, that’s where my anger really lies, with the people running the game, with the media, with other clubs that are happy to operate under this model. Celtic fans can be a bit infantile and frustrating but they’re not the real issue on this. 

Anyway, I’m bored posting about it so I’ll leave it at that (for a while). 

Quitter!

You've got to remain annoyed.  Even when quite happy about other, more important things in life, it's important to retain a certain, all pervasive pissed offness at all times.

[lubo_blaha]

Any sort of "re-distribution" including sharing gate receipts is a total non-starter - the money side is never going to be fixed. That doesn't mean that other measures can't be seriously looked at (again, US sport puts some "artificial limits" on their competitions with salary caps, use of draft etc - why can't we look at measures that would work in a Scottish football context). 

A salary cap would work in a closed league like in American sports but it’s a non-starter in Scotland imo. What would you even set it at?

I can’t see clubs going for a draft system either. Why would they invest in their academies when promising eighteen year olds can be randomly sent to Dingwall, for example?

[Swello]

1 hour ago, lubo_blaha said:

A salary cap would work in a closed league like in American sports but it’s a non-starter in Scotland imo. What would you even set it at?

I can’t see clubs going for a draft system either. Why would they invest in their academies when promising eighteen year olds can be randomly sent to Dingwall, for example?

Those things wouldn't work here, hence the 2nd part of the sentence

[Hoose Rice]

58 minutes ago, BoJack said:

Now now, be nice. 

 

Fully expecting us to take a doing here or there in champs league, but it'll be exciting at least. We'll have a go and actually attack them, there'll be no buses getting parked anyway that's for sure. 

That worked out well for St Brendan  

[HailHailHayley]

What a pointless idea a salary cap is btw. All it'll do is send our league even further backwards if the rest of football isn't applying the same rules. Handicap ourselves for no reason.

[Monkey Tennis]

15 hours ago, HailHailHayley said:

What a pointless idea a salary cap is btw. All it'll do is send our league even further backwards if the rest of football isn't applying the same rules. Handicap ourselves for no reason.

It would be for an excellent reason.

I'm not sure if it would be that practical, but it's employed in various sports leagues in various  places, and the reason for it is to make it more egalitarian and therefore more internally competitive.

Now I understand that from your viewpoint, how competitive our clubs can be in Europe, matters more than how vibrant our domestic competition is.  I don't agree with this outlook, considering it self serving and short sighted.

However, I recognise that such a view exists and is legitimate enough.

Your "for no reason" remark suggests that you don't even understand where some of us are coming from, or what we want.  Is that really the case?

Edited September 2, 2022 by Monkey Tennis

[Jacksgranda]

11 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I go through phases of being vocal about this issue and not but it is a constant that it is true. It’s particularly pissed me off this season seeing absolute nothing games taking place and no one in power or in the media seems to bat an eyelid.

The idea that clubs should just try harder is particularly annoying because this is the plan. This is the business model. You put your top teams at the top so they go into europe and grow the ‘brand’ by playing in the elite competitions. It’s literally the whole idea.

If there was no European football then we might have a punchers chance of someone in power suggesting that teams winning every week by multiple goals without really trying might be a problem in a competition. 

At the end of the day, that’s where my anger really lies, with the people running the game, with the media, with other clubs that are happy to operate under this model. Celtic fans can be a bit infantile and frustrating but they’re not the real issue on this. 

Anyway, I’m bored posting about it so I’ll leave it at that (for a while). 

Ach, you're just like the diddy teams - all you need to do is try harder and acquire more P&B knowledge.

[kennie makevin]

22 minutes ago, BoJack said:

What's the alternative ? Sit in and defend for your lives, hope for a draw at best ? Big Ange is made from different stuff. 

Mr Postegoclu to you, son.  I know for a fact that Big Ange despises over familiar creeps that never have and never will meet him. 

 

 

 

 

[hk blues]

14 hours ago, gannonball said:

The cash in the Europa league isn’t massively different to the Europa but given the trajectory we are on with champions league cash no. However we could easily crash and burn when Ange leaves.

Hearts are currently 80/1 to win the league and 500/1 to be relegated.

And neither will happen

[VincentGuerin]

Salary caps will never happen. We can even see the example from the attempts down in England to impose them on the EFL that it's not workable when dealing with clubs of hugely different sizes.

The only solution is a complete re-working of income distribution in football.

People always roll their eyes when you talk about other sports, but the American and Australian sports models are designed to make their sports competitive and interesting and they work. Across their different sports they use ideas like salary caps, weighted drafts, play-offs, shared income models. We can't use all of those things in Scottish football, but we can use some of them.

It's basically a very simple question. Do you want to have meaningful and interesting competition or do you just want to see your team win all the time? A lot of the Old Firm fans on here have pretty much already answered that question.

I often feel quite jealous at the play-off stage of the NRL, for example, watching great games between really good sides and knowing that any one of a number of them could actually win the competition. Shock horror, people get excited and it becomes a great event. Brisbane Broncos don't get to just say to Manly, f**k you, that's our money, we're going to beat you 60-0 all the time.

Brisbane have the highest revenues in the NRL, but haven't won it since 2006. Dallas Cowboys are the biggest in terms of revenue in NFL, but haven't won a superbowl since 1995.

We could have that in Scotland. Football could be exciting. But we don't, because we let the Glasgow Tories run it.

Edited September 2, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[HailHailHayley]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It would be for an excellent reason.

I'm not sure if would be that practical, but it's employed in various sports leagues in various  places, and the reason for it is to make it more egalitarian and therefore more internally competitive.

Now I understand that from your viewpoint, how competitive our clubs can be in Europe, matters more than how vibrant our domestic competition is.  I don't agree with this outlook, considering it self serving and short sighted.

However, I recognise that such a view exists and is legitimate enough.

Your "for no reason" remark suggests that you don't even understand where some of us are coming from, or what we want.  Is that really the case?

I understand that you want to create a fake competitiveness in the league at the expense of any hope of quality. Only in Scotland would the solution be to drag the top down & make everyone shite, instead of wanting ways for the bottom to improve & get closer to the top. 

Your plan would be the death of any kind of ambition, and I'm not just talking from a Celtic point of view.

[Dons_1988]

15 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Salary caps will never happen. We can even see the example from the attempts down in England to impose them on the EFL that it's not workable when dealing with clubs of hugely different sizes.

The only solution is a complete re-working of income distribution in football.

People always roll their eyes when you talk about other sports, but the American and Australian sports models are designed to make their sports competitive and interesting and they work. Across their different sports they use ideas like salary caps, weighted drafts, play-offs, shared income models. We can't use all of those things in Scottish football, but we can use some of them.

It's basically a very simple question. Do you want to have meaningful and interesting competition or do you just want to see your team win all the time? A lot of the Old Firm fans on here have pretty much already answered that question.

I often feel quite jealous at the play-off stage of the NRL, for example, watching great games between really good sides and knowing that any one of a number of them could actually win the competition. Shock horror, people get excited and it becomes a great event. Brisbane Broncos don't get to just say to Manly, f**k you, that's our money, we're going to beat you 60-0 all the time.

Brisbane have the highest revenues in the NRL, but haven't won it since 2006. Dallas Cowboys are the biggest in terms of revenue in NFL, but haven't won a superbowl since 1995.

We could have that in Scotland. Football could be exciting. But we don't, because we let the Glasgow Tories run it.

I do believe that in a hypothetical world where uefa pulled up the draw bridge and decided they only wanted 8-10 elite teams competing against each other and the rest were forced to settle for domestic competition, that after all the tears and snotters we’d see a growing complaint that the league was boring and uncompetitive. 

I think the draw of European money is so great that so many involved are willing to just bury their head in the sand on this issue. 

[kennie makevin]

12 minutes ago, HailHailHayley said:

I understand that you want to create a fake competitiveness in the league at the expense of any hope of quality. Only in Scotland would the solution be to drag the top down & make everyone shite, instead of wanting ways for the bottom to improve & get closer to the top. 

Your plan would be the death of any kind of ambition, and I'm not just talking from a Celtic point of view.

I don't know about the death of any kind of ambition, i'd just take the death of Glasgow Celtic & Glasgow Rangers as a starting point for a new dawn. Everything's got to be better after that. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by kennie makevin
Typo

[HailHailHayley]

2 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

I don't know about the death of any ambition, i'd just take the death of Glasgow Celtic & Glasgow Rangers as a starting point for a new dawn. Everything's got to be better after that. 

Glasgow Rangers already died. RIP (rot in pieces).

[DUFC_]

Salary cap is a non-starter anyway, what would it even look like? Rangers and Celtic capped a 20k p/w? the rest pay 10 players with that money, more. 

Restructure is the only option now. The league is boring AF, long, overly complicated, rigged. The guy running it appears useless, how long did we not even have a sponsor in place, complete incompetence. Belgium population around the same size as ours, slightly bigger but similar structure in the two bigger teams, absolutely light years ahead of our game, 18 club top tier, no financial meltdown, loads of interest, loads of investment.

Too many big clubs left to rot so that a few outside the OF can achieve mediocrity. Relegation playoffs are laughable. 

 

[stu92]

45 minutes ago, HailHailHayley said:

I understand that you want to create a fake competitiveness in the league at the expense of any hope of quality. Only in Scotland would the solution be to drag the top down & make everyone shite, instead of wanting ways for the bottom to improve & get closer to the top. 

Your plan would be the death of any kind of ambition, and I'm not just talking from a Celtic point of view.

Beyond trying harder and signing better (more expensive) players etc, how do we improve the bottom?

[DA Baracus]

49 minutes ago, DUFC_ said:

Salary cap is a non-starter anyway, what would it even look like? Rangers and Celtic capped a 20k p/w? the rest pay 10 players with that money, more. 

Restructure is the only option now. The league is boring AF, long, overly complicated, rigged. The guy running it appears useless, how long did we not even have a sponsor in place, complete incompetence. Belgium population around the same size as ours, slightly bigger but similar structure in the two bigger teams, absolutely light years ahead of our game, 18 club top tier, no financial meltdown, loads of interest, loads of investment.

Too many big clubs left to rot so that a few outside the OF can achieve mediocrity. Relegation playoffs are laughable. 

 

Re the part in bold; what?! 

[kennie makevin]

1 hour ago, HailHailHayley said:

Glasgow Rangers already died. RIP (rot in pieces).

Who are you playing in the Bigotry Fest tomorrow then ? Freddie & The Dreamers ?  

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Lol at the prospect of Celtic going to the Bernabau and "having a go" at Madrid.

Benzema would score about 10 in the first half alone.