How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[RawB93]

On 25/08/2022 at 22:56, G51 said:

Teams that play in green and white hoops should start every game with a handicap of minus-eight goals. 

You may want to revise this.

[johnnydun]

I suspect it's far too late to change anything if you still want to include the OF in the Scottish League going forward.

The OF take in the most funds because they have the largest support, this in turn attracts the most investment, which leads to the most success and then it just snowballs.

But the gulf in support hasn't always been like this.

Dundee, up until 1990 had average attendances of well over 10,000 and at times being over 30,000. 

The same kind of pattern emerges at Aberdeen, United, Motherwell etc... An average attendance of 25k plus in the 50's, 60's to falling below about 10k in the 90's.

2 significant things imo happened in the early 90's that could have had an effect on the attendances...

The birth of the English Premiership, along with being on Sky sports, probably turned the heads (and definitely still does) of youngsters to watch English football instead of Scottish.

Oldco Rangers cheating their way to 9 in a row, made it all very dull and predictable. Although a 9 in a row had been performed previously by Celtic in the 70's, the huge gulf that we saw in the 90's was never really there.

I think to make things better for the clubs outside the OF, the OF have to go, in whatever capacity that may be.

And Sky sports must stop showing over rated, over priced English guff in Scotland. That way we may see average attendances at us diddys go back up to 25k plus, in turn gain investment, win trophies, snowball into winning Chamions Leagues etc..

Edited August 29, 2022 by johnnydun

[Sergeant Wilson]

13 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

I suspect it's far too late to change anything if you still want to include the OF in the Scottish League going forward.

The OF take in the most funds because they have the largest support, this in turn attracts the most investment, which leads to the most success and then it just snowballs.

But the gulf in support hasn't always been like this.

Dundee, up until 1990 had average attendances of well over 10,000 and at times being over 30,000. 

The same kind of pattern emerges at Aberdeen, United, Motherwell etc... An average attendance of 25k plus in the 50's, 60's to falling below about 10k in the 90's.

2 significant things imo happened in the early 90's that could have had an effect on the attendances...

The birth of the English Premiership, along with being on Sky sports, probably turned the heads (and definitely still does) of youngsters to watch English football instead of Scottish.

Oldco Rangers cheating their way to 9 in a row, made it all very dull and predictable. Although a 9 in a row had been performed previously by Celtic in the 70's, the huge gulf that we saw in the 90's was never really there.

I think to make things better for the clubs outside the OF, the OF have to go, in whatever capacity that may be.

And Sky sports must stop showing over rated, over priced English guff in Scotland. That way we may see average attendances at us diddys go back up to 25k plus, in turn gain investment, win trophies, snowball into winning Chamions Leagues etc..

None of that is happening. The clubs have been painting themselves in to this corner since 1975, at least. There is nowhere else to go. You either like it lump it.

[HarleyQuinn]

 

[DA Baracus]

The knockout stage of the League Cup starts this week.

Guess what the two live games on BBC Sportsound are? One of which has already been a live game on Sportsound this season.

The same two games are also the Premier Sports games.

So yet again more massively lopsided coverage in favour of those two teams.

How does 'a good business plan' overcome that? Even if the £500k wasn't swallowed up by VAR costs, how does that money overcome that?

 

[HailHailHayley]

24 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

The knockout stage of the League Cup starts this week.

Guess what the two live games on BBC Sportsound are? One of which has already been a live game on Sportsound this season.

The same two games are also the Premier Sports games.

So yet again more massively lopsided coverage in favour of those two teams.

How does 'a good business plan' overcome that? Even if the £500k wasn't swallowed up by VAR costs, how does that money overcome that?

 

Aye, absolute scandal that the teams who most people in the country want to watch & therefore guarantee a bigger TV audience are the ones selected to be shown on television. 

You'd never get Spanish TV picking Real & Barca or English TV picking Liverpool & Man Utd.

[DA Baracus]

6 minutes ago, HailHailHayley said:

Aye, absolute scandal that the teams who most people in the country want to watch & therefore guarantee a bigger TV audience are the ones selected to be shown on television. 

You'd never get Spanish TV picking Real & Barca or English TV picking Liverpool & Man Utd.

Must have imagined the feature/first game on MOTD being  Fulham vs Brentford the other week.

You've not actually addressed the issue one bit here, so unsure what your post is trying to achieve other than deflection.

[HailHailHayley]

24 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Must have imagined the feature/first game on MOTD being  Fulham vs Brentford the other week.

You've not actually addressed the issue one bit here, so unsure what your post is trying to achieve other than deflection.

MOTD is a highlights show which features every team that has played in the Premier League that day, so don't know how that's relevant? When the BBC have English FA Cup games they select the ties featuring the biggest clubs. 

My point is that this happens in literally every country. But there's a weird victim complex among the diddies here like Scotland is a unique case. Big clubs have bigger fanbases. Big clubs have bigger interest in them. It's not rocket science why Dundee v Falkirk wasn't chosen instead.

[DA Baracus]

So instead of answering the question or trying to debate it's once again the 'diddy' patter and deflection. Standard.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

1 hour ago, HailHailHayley said:

Aye, absolute scandal that the teams who most people in the country want to watch & therefore guarantee a bigger TV audience are the ones selected to be shown on television. 

You'd never get Spanish TV picking Real & Barca or English TV picking Liverpool & Man Utd.

Premier TV is a commercial enterprise, so no surprise from them, though ironically their absolute refusal to even consider a wider service probably costs rather than gains them viewers overall.

Sportsound has no such excuse yet acts like Rangers and Celtic are their charter holders

[DieDee]

On 28/08/2022 at 05:56, tamba_trio said:

So we have a top league of 12 or 14 or 16, but that's it. No relegation. 

A lot of the suggestion may work but wouldn't get away from the fan basis and the unpleasant, shall we call it, element that the big 2 bring. If we want to move away from the cycle of the biggest clubs getting the glory hunting fan base we have to break the link between current clubs and the fan base so that the fans remain loyal to their local clubs. You could do this by moving to a regional based top league (other clubs could continue in the lower leagues but couldn't qualify for Europe). Let's face it, who from say Dundee and Angus (or whatever they would be called) is going to say they support East Glasgow or West Glasgow. Clubs from each region would be invited to join the league, thus utilising the facilities currently available. No club used as a home base could include any of the colours they have in their current home strip. This would mean every larger club would have to genuinely give up on their history but in the long term every club would have a similar sized population to draw their fan base from and make the league a genuine challenge. The current state of Scottish football just wont change and a tinkering of amalgamations wont cut it. Any plan put forward has to think about the next 100 years. With current state of Scottish Football, and the way the money now filters through the game, how many teams outside the top 2 would you think will win the league over this 100 years?      

[kennie makevin]

14 hours ago, HailHailHayley said:

MOTD is a highlights show which features every team that has played in the Premier League that day, so don't know how that's relevant? When the BBC have English FA Cup games they select the ties featuring the biggest clubs. 

My point is that this happens in literally every country. But there's a weird victim complex among the diddies here like Scotland is a unique case. Big clubs have bigger fanbases. Big clubs have bigger interest in them. It's not rocket science why Dundee v Falkirk wasn't chosen instead.

And it's not rocket science why the Old Firm clubs have bigger fanbases....Over a century of pandering to secterian division and religious tribalism . Proud of that, are you ?

[wastecoatwilly]

22 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

And it's not rocket science why the Old Firm clubs have bigger fanbases....Over a century of pandering to secterian division and religious tribalism . Proud of that, are you ?

FFS give it a rest M8,We all remember the sectarian policy rangers had for over 100 years,since the end of the 90's it's dead with the dodo.
You are living in the past M8 just like the dafties singing the songs at the games.
It takes generations to change that,there is all sorts of people with different religions going to the game these days plus the tribalism is about beaten our city rivals feck all to do with religion dafties like you get that mixed up.  

[kennie makevin]

6 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

FFS give it a rest M8,We all remember the sectarian policy rangers had for over 100 years,since the end of the 90's it's dead with the dodo.
You are living in the past M8 just like the dafties singing the songs at the games.
It takes generations to change that,there is all sorts of people with different religions going to the game these days plus the tribalism is about beaten our city rivals feck all to do with religion dafties like you get that mixed up.  

When Rangers stop producing Orange strips you may be onto something. When Celtic fans stop singing about the IRA you may be onto something.  Otherwise I hope the weather's suitably Clement on whatever planet you inhabit. 

[Trackdaybob]

25 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

It takes generations to change that

And yet here we still are. 

 

[wastecoatwilly]

9 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

When Rangers stop producing Orange strips you may be onto something. When Celtic fans stop singing about the IRA you may be onto something.  Otherwise I hope the weather's suitably Clement on whatever planet you inhabit. 

I've live in the east end of Glasgow all my life so don't tell me what planet i inhabit,guys like you haven't got the first clue how to fix it,orange strips and IRA songs feck off M8.

[VincentGuerin]

1 hour ago, kennie makevin said:

And it's not rocket science why the Old Firm clubs have bigger fanbases....Over a century of pandering to secterian division and religious tribalism . Proud of that, are you ?

 

38 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

FFS give it a rest M8,We all remember the sectarian policy rangers had for over 100 years,since the end of the 90's it's dead with the dodo.
You are living in the past M8 just like the dafties singing the songs at the games.
It takes generations to change that,there is all sorts of people with different religions going to the game these days plus the tribalism is about beaten our city rivals feck all to do with religion dafties like you get that mixed up.  

Aye. The days of Rangers pandering to bigots as a commercial concern are well behind us.

[wastecoatwilly]

19 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

 

Aye. The days of Rangers pandering to bigots as a commercial concern are well behind us.

It's only a fecking colour M8 get a fecking grip.

[kennie makevin]

44 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

It's only a fecking colour M8 get a fecking grip.

Really ? Are you that niave ? Or is it some sort of elaborate mind game you're engaged in ? 

[johnnydun]

17 hours ago, HailHailHayley said:

Aye, absolute scandal that the teams who most people in the country want to watch

You sure about that aye? Please show your working.