How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[KirkieRR]

50 minutes ago, MEADOWXI said:

Teams dominating leagues is fairly normal. Trying to artificially change it won't work.

 

That's true. But our teams below the Evil Twins seem to be almost wilfully terrible, whereas in these other European leagues the makeweight teams are pretty good - AZ Alkmaar may not have been Dutch champions but look at their performance v Dundee Untied. And I wonder if the top teams in, say, The Netherlands and Portugal dominate the running of the game with the power of veto, the way our two do, and whether the other teams try pathetically to not offend them.

 

I think the explanation is that we get almost everything wrong in Scotland, from organisation, to youth football to coaching right through to, yes, reconstruction which as with the caller above bores me rigid. There are better ways of structuring our leagues for sure but even if we hit on the perfect solution, I doubt if it would solve much - though I like the idea of the top two teams forming the SPFL Super Premier League and playing each other 36 times in Dubai or somewhere.

 

It's being so cheerful as keeps me going.

[MEADOWXI]

4 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

That's true. But our teams below the Evil Twins seem to be almost wilfully terrible, whereas in these other European leagues the makeweight teams are pretty good - AZ Alkmaar may not have been Dutch champions but look at their performance v Dundee Untied. And I wonder if the top teams in, say, The Netherlands and Portugal dominate the running of the game with the power of veto, the way our two do, and whether the other teams try pathetically to not offend them.

 

I think the explanation is that we get almost everything wrong in Scotland, from organisation, to youth football to coaching right through to, yes, reconstruction which as with the caller above bores me rigid. There are better ways of structuring our leagues for sure but even if we hit on the perfect solution, I doubt if it would solve much - though I like the idea of the top two teams forming the SPFL Super Premier League and playing each other 36 times in Dubai or somewhere.

 

It's being so cheerful as keeps me going.

Not going to disagree with what you have said,

 

Is Dubai warm enough.....  How about Hell.

[Charles Stiles]

If only there were two other threads currently on the go 'discussing' the same thing. 

[TheScarf]

Yep, we need more threads on this topic.

[kennie makevin]

41 minutes ago, Charles Stiles said:

If only there were two other threads currently on the go 'discussing' the same thing. 

Seems to have been an explosion in the 'Everything's TickettyBoo' factory and an Old Firm fan's escaped.

[Richey Edwards]

hiya pals,im afraid im gonny be goin away for a bit so this will be the last youl hear of me im afraid. its quite a long story but alow me to fill yous in. 

my pals and me always play jokes on eachother on our birthdays it started as simple things like my pal derek who has a car and he can drive we tinfoyeled his car,completely covered and we all laughed, and then nathan henderson who still does the tablet and fudge sellin round the doors,we made a macaroon bar with a dog shit and some pencil sharpnins and he even sold it to alec thomsons grandad bill for 50p and we laughed. 

these were harmles fun but gary morrison took it two far at my birthday cos hed been pretending to be me on a forum called nambla-chat,i dinny ken what it is probably some eropean heavy metal band or some shite that hes into, but anyway he registered as young_chigsy_from_scotland_loves_old_cock and he used a pic of me from bebo and he chatted up all these old sicos who were pedophiles and this one guy from germany had just got out of jail and was on the forum and gary morrison chatted him up,as me, and the guy started sayin he loved me, exept it wasnt me it was gary morrison pretendin. but then he gave him my address and this german pedo turned up in scotland 2 weeks later on my birthday and tried to get in my house to kiss me and show me his willy and that. lucky for me derek was there and he went out and chibbed the c**t. lucky escape aye but i was angry at gary morrison for takin it two far,at the end of the day my bumhole is exit only and 57yr old hans weiner from dusildorf wasny gonny change taht and then i swore revenge on gary morrison on his birthday. 

gary morrison has boring birthday parties with all his family and that at his house and hes got loads of old ppl in his family but i was there with stevie hall and we were playin cod on xboxlive for ages which i like to do cos he has the hedset and i like to shout 'americans are gay' when americans are talking but i do it in an english voice and then there like 'oooh would you like a cup of tea' also in an english voice but anyway my revnge plan was simple. i was gonny pretend to go home at night but not go home and insted id hide under his bed until he went to bed then id jump out on him,,,,revenge and job done, chigsy style.

i said i was away home and said cheerio to him and aw the old fuddy dudys and that but after leavin the livin room i sneaked of upstairs. before takin my hiding place i drew a cock on the head of a guy on his blink182 poster, then i got his anhaler of his bedside cabinet and rubbed my nob on it, well you cant have two much revenge when youv nearly been arseshagged i thought as i got under the bed. he got to his room sooner than id thought after fucking about next door in the toilet for ages, dirty wee c***s probably havin a chug i thought, then the door opened and the light came on, he had a pair of ridicilos baffies on like an old wifey would were and i was lookin forward two takin the piss out him for them later on. as the light went out and he got in bed i let him settle before divin out, jumpin under the covers grabbin him and shoutin 'GONNY SHAG YE, AM GONNY SHAG YE'. i didnt know gary morrisons 89yr old gran ethil from coatbridge always stayed at his on his birthdays as it was too late for her two go home,and i also didnt know that he always gave the old boot a shot of his bed and he slept downstares on the couch. 

by the time the ambulence got there id tryed to climb out the window but got stuck and had to get pulled back in by gary morrisons dad but nobody actualy battered me which i was happy about but they were all realy cryin and upset and that. i had to talk to the police later that night in the police station. i always thought manslaughter was a ps2 game but apparently im gonny have to spend a wee bit of time as a guest of her magesty and ive a bad feelin that the bum beastin i escaped the first time will come back and hont me. i suppose gary morrison had the last laugh after all altho he wont get a £5note in a card from granny ethil next yr so every cloud and that eh.

wish me luck,ill need it. i hope i dont get a room mate who posts on the nambla forum likes.

[HibeeJibee]

Look at those leagues whose clubs have reached CL groups this season, and at who finished top 2 in those leagues in last decade.

Basically almost every league is now dominated by 2 or 3 clubs.

In some cases it's a single club, and there may be few battling behind them; in some cases it's a duopoly; in some cases it's a triumvirate. Beyond that it's largely one-offs or early last decade.


Austria
only 2 clubs have won and 1 of those was 10 years ago
3 other clubs have finished 2nd

Belgium
only 3 clubs have won
3 other clubs have finished 2nd but 1 of those was 10 years ago - admittedly another was most recent

Croatia
only 2 clubs have won (once in 1 case)
3 other clubs have finished 2nd - and admittedly most of those were most recent

Czech Republic
only 3 clubs have won and 1 of those was 9 years ago
nobody else has finished 2nd

Denmark
4 clubs have won but 1 of those was 9 years ago
2 other clubs have finished 2nd (once each) but those were 7 + 10 years ago

England
5 clubs have won
2 other clubs have finished 2nd

France
only 3 clubs have won (once each in 2 cases)
2 other clubs have finished 2nd and 1 of those was 7 + 8 years ago

Germany
only 1 club has won
4 other clubs have finished 2nd (once each in some cases)

Israel
only 3 clubs have won
only 1 other club has finished 2nd (once)

Italy
only 3 clubs have won - admittedly 2 of those were most recent
2 other clubs have finished 2nd

Netherlands
only 3 clubs have won
nobody else has finished 2nd

Portugal
only 3 clubs have won (once in 1 case)
nobody else has finished 2nd

Scotland
only 2 clubs have won
only 2 other clubs have finished 2nd and 1 of those was 9 + 10 years ago

Spain
only 3 clubs have won
nobody else has finished 2nd

Ukraine
only 2 clubs have won
only 2 other clubs have finished 2nd (once each) and those were 9 + 10 years ago

[ftk]

You would have thought with yanks owning Hibs, Dundee teams and Aberdeen (scot who has knowledge of American sports) they would have come up with a masterplan on how to change things for the better.

I know the old firm would oppose it but the other 40 SPFL teams ultimately have more power. Yes the old firm can vito with their ridiculous 2 vote rubbish but the other SPFL clubs could threaten with a breakaway to get a better league structure.

At the end of the day Rangers and Celtic need clubs to play against.

[Hoose Rice]

Playoffs baby.  

[Pens_Dark]

4 hours ago, KirkieRR said:

That's true. But our teams below the Evil Twins seem to be almost wilfully terrible, whereas in these other European leagues the makeweight teams are pretty good - AZ Alkmaar may not have been Dutch champions but look at their performance v Dundee Untied. And I wonder if the top teams in, say, The Netherlands and Portugal dominate the running of the game with the power of veto, the way our two do, and whether the other teams try pathetically to not offend them.

 

I think the explanation is that we get almost everything wrong in Scotland, from organisation, to youth football to coaching right through to, yes, reconstruction which as with the caller above bores me rigid. There are better ways of structuring our leagues for sure but even if we hit on the perfect solution, I doubt if it would solve much - though I like the idea of the top two teams forming the SPFL Super Premier League and playing each other 36 times in Dubai or somewhere.

 

It's being so cheerful as keeps me going.

The likes of AZ Alkmaar operate in entirely different circles to even the third best team in our country - Hearts. A quick look at transfermarkt shows that they sold players for a total of £17.1 million and brought in £11 million worth in value. In many ways they would probably be operationally similar to Celtic and Rangers. 

The gap between Scottish teams and the rest of european teams is simply down to two things - finance and production of technically gifted players. More should be done from the SFA's point of view to distribute money in to footballing academies.

Many won't like this, also, but Celtic and Rangers continued success in europe boosting coefficient will help the rest of Scotland. I know it widens the gap between the two but most leagues have a similar scenario. 

[Jacky1990]

5 hours ago, MEADOWXI said:

This not a Scottish issue,

 

Bar Twente in 2009-2010 & DWS in 1963-1964 the Dutch league has never been won by other than three team (Ajax, Feyenoord & PSV).

Bar Boavista (2000-2001) & Belenenses (1945-1946) the Portuguese league has never been won by other than three team (Porto, Benfica & Sporting).

Teams dominating leagues is fairly normal. Trying to artificially change it won't work.

Can only pray for a proper liquidation followed by bulldozing and grave dancing to actually change things. 

I agree with your point, but in the Dutch league, since it went pro in 1956:
- AZ (1980-81, 2008-09)
- Sparta Rotterdam (1958-59)
- Twente (2009-10)
- DOS (1957-58)
- DWS (1963-64)
 

[Jacky1990]

The reality is that with the vast sums of money on offer in the Champions League, teams who continually qualify for that tournament will widen the gap between themselves and the rest of their respective leagues.

As many people have said, this isnt a Scottish problem, it is evident across Europe. The difference between us and the rest is that this problem has existed far longer.

For fundamental change and for teams to have a more even chance of winning leagues, either the money train bubble from UEFA and TV companies has to completely burst and bigger teams go into financial meltdown across the board or the Super League pish happens and all the bigger teams f**k off.

[Nae Union]

7 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Replying to yourself. Forget to change accounts?

You don't normally reply to threads 9 hours old?

Every club is ambitious. You're clearly one of those folk who think ambition means money.

Would agree that there should be automatic promotion to and relegation from League 2. 

Just adding an extra thought to my original post. 

[sergie's no1 fan]

The best thing for a competitive division would be the gruesome twosome to join some European 'super' (z lister) league. Would that give us an exciting title race with different teams challenging? Or would it turn into an annual 2-3 horse race between Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts?

 

[Stylish Kid]

It's a fact of life that there are generally a handful of successful clubs in each league. 

 

However an easy hit is more equitable distribution of TV money. Prize money is probably fair enough, but TV money and fixtures on TV being more evenly spread would help. 

[Squonk]

2 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Look at those leagues whose clubs have reached CL groups this season, and at who finished top 2 in those leagues in last decade.

Basically almost every league is now dominated by 2 or 3 clubs.

I feel guilty nit-picking about your post when I should be commending you for the research you've clearly done, but why are you only comparing other nations during the past 10 seasons when nobody except the big two have won a Scottish top league title for 37 seasons? Also, your conclusion, along with many others' on here, seems to be that our league isn't broken so long as other nations' leagues are broken in a similar manner as well.

[Stylish Kid]

Just now, Stylish Kid said:

It's a fact of life that there are generally a handful of successful clubs in each league. 

 

However an easy hit is more equitable distribution of TV money. Prize money is probably fair enough, but TV money and fixtures on TV being more evenly spread would help. 

Oh and also change this 11-1 voting bollocks. 2/3rds majority is fine. 11-1 is just a mechanism to lock in power to the Old Firm

[HailHailHayley]

37 minutes ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

Or would it turn into an annual 2-3 horse race between Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts?

 

Of course it would. There's a natural order & bigger clubs will always tend to finish above clubs smaller than them if they're not being being badly run.

Then when you get rid of those three, watch the Dundee United & Motherwell domination begin.

[Sergeant Wilson]

There's  nothing like a reconstruction thread to show us why supporters should have no say in anything.

[DA Baracus]

3 hours ago, Pens_Dark said:

Many won't like this, also, but Celtic and Rangers continued success in europe boosting coefficient will help the rest of Scotland. 

How?