Rest in Peace Scottish football

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I mind going to see AFC Wimbledon v Northampton with ma mate who was a Northampton fan. Made a joke after ten minutes I hadn't seen a single pass played forwards along the ground yet and made an effort to look out for one. Came to half time and there wasn't one. Genuinely saw better passing and control in the Fort William v Golspie match the other week.

Although obviously either of those teams would have put double figures past Golpsie. They play to their strengths. But it's mind numbing and, also, explains why some Scottish players can't hack it down there. It's just not a system that suits them. 

This is why it's hard to compare. The systems are so different and the profile of player is different in terms of attributes.

I love English lower-league and non-league fitba. But what makes it great is that it's competitive, relatively unpredictable, and it has a great culture in terms of crowds, atmosphere etc.

The actual standard of play once you're below the automatic promotion places in the Championship is generally rubbish.

You'd never know that from how it's marketed (the Championship in particular), but that's the reality.

Price of Football had a segment about the Championship tv figures recently, and basically nobody watches it. They all still get 7 million quid a year tv money, mind you.

[ahemps]

48 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

What's going to be interesting (concerning?) in the next few years is the impact of potentially a few years of group stage fitba being on offer to at least one non-OF team.

The Old Firm are away over the horizon, but the money from Europa League/Conference group stage fitba is huge in the context of the gap between Hearts and St Mirren, for example. My thinking is that over the next few years we'll see the non-OF 'City clubs' gradually move a bit further away from the pack as over a few years that kind of revenue will make the current bridgeable gap much bigger.

The result of this being three leagues in our top flight rather than our normal two.

I think it will only be a temporary lift and only if Hearts get it 2yrs in a row. Playing in the groups might have an effect on your league form so it may open the door for someone else to get 3rd this year.

And in 2-3yrs it is likely Scotland's coefficient will drop back to 4 teams and not guaranteed group stage football for 3rd which means the revenue for Hearts will return to normal.

If Hearts were to invest in their structure and youth system rather than their team then it may help them to push away from the pack for a few years but I can't see it being a permanent thing. Aberdeen were doing things right for a good few years but it is hard to maintain when you constantly lose your best players and any good manager.

The potential is always there for the bigger city clubs Hearts, Hibs Aberdeen to be permanent top 6 clubs but it has never quite happened. 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Just now, VincentGuerin said:

This is why it's hard to compare. The systems are so different and the profile of player is different in terms of attributes.

I love English lower-league and non-league fitba. But what makes it great is that it's competitive, relatively unpredictable, and it has a great culture in terms of crowds, atmosphere etc.

I'd argue English non-league is a better watch. Has a wonderful mix of 6'4" mutants who can head the ball really far and 5'4" sand dancers who can beat five players then shin it out for a corner. 

[Desp]

41 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I’m glad Dundee United took the principled stance of distancing itself from European football at an early stage this season.

 

Solidarity, brother 

In terms of what changes now both OF teams are in the Champions League...absolutely f**k all.  The enormous gap that was already between them and the rest will get bigger, but who cares anymore?  We've already seen a couple of scuddings dished out by the big two so far this season.  There'll be plenty more. 

I do wonder if the other clubs in the league will just start to fire out weaker sides when they go to Ibrox/Celtic Park.  We've seen Hearts do it already.  Those games don't really matter to our season, the chance of actually getting something is so small these days, so may as well focus on the more important games against your peers.  Every chance both Celtic and Rangers will get 95+ points and it'll be the games against each other that'll decide who wins the league.  I mean, all the best to them, but it'll get really fucking boring for everyone else very quickly I'd imagine.  

I did laugh when I noticed a Celtic fan on Twitter telling the other clubs, in order to compete a bit more against the OF, to "stop underselling their players".  I'll refer back to them the next time they cherry pick a player from another Scottish club when they hit out with the "you'll take what you're given" patter.

All the best to them in the Champions League, however.  I really hope their lack of financial muscle doesn't prevent them from competing and making a good fist of it.

[ahemps]

22 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Swiss Ramble predicted the share of the tv pot available to Celtic for this season was 4.71 million. The pot is estimated to be smaller due to a rebate following Covid.

With Rangers now in it our share would be 55% so at max it should be a 2.2 million loss which can be recouped with just 1 win 

Swiss Ramble is usually pretty spot on so no reason to doubt it 

 

That's where I got my figures. He does great work.

[Jinky67]

55 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Yeah, I did make a great point because I was directly quoting someone who specifically mentioned the EPL, Spain and Germany. Then I mentioned some smaller countries who have three clubs. You don’t have to agree that having three relatively matched clubs is better than two out of sight ones, but I was just replying to someone else. I wouldn’t expect you to want Scotland to have a third club on a par with you and your bosom buddies. A nice, stitched-up, cosy, two club cartel suits both of you just fine. I get it. As long as you beat ‘them’, and get it right up them. World’s a great place.

Maybe not a popular opinion however at this stage i’d even consider a route into the English Championship for a shot at their golden goose so your assumption isn’t quite on the money

[ftk]

The clubs outside the old firm need to get together and come up with a plan to change things.

[Jinky67]

46 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

Who. cares ....the German equivalent of P&B are welcome to that debate.  The Scottish top flight is effectively dead but once again the Old Firm brainstrust trot out the "why are you annoyed that your cat got run over, cats get run over in Munich too, you know" line of defence.  Good job the rest of us aren't listening to the outdated tribal whataboutery and triumphalism any longer.  

Clearly you do since the point i quoted was you saying leagues like the Bundesliga aren’t in the same state of tedium.

So it can’t be whataboutery if it was you who referenced them in the first instance

 

[pozbaird]

1 minute ago, Jinky67 said:

Maybe not a popular opinion however at this stage i’d even consider a route into the English Championship for a shot at their golden goose so your assumption isn’t quite on the money

Fair enough. I stand corrected. I didn’t know your view was you’d take any route out of Scotland with a view to climbing up to a point where you’d finish behind Man City, Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle, West Ham, Leicester and Everton.

I wish you’d get your way and we could wave you farewell and fcuk off at Abbotsinch Aerodrome.

One questiion though before you pack your suitcase for that away day in Derby…. Assuming you don’t fcuk off to England, and you and your pals remain up here with the rest of us - would you actively welcome a situation whereby it wasn’t ‘Barcelona - Real Madrid’ here, but was ‘Barcelona - Real Madrid - Atletico Madrid’? I’m hoping you would. In fact, maybe you’d welcome a truly competitive Scottish top flight where the only two clubs who have won it in 36 years might finish anywhere from 1st to 5th. 

[TheScarf]

28 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

This is why it's hard to compare. The systems are so different and the profile of player is different in terms of attributes.

I love English lower-league and non-league fitba. But what makes it great is that it's competitive, relatively unpredictable, and it has a great culture in terms of crowds, atmosphere etc.

The actual standard of play once you're below the automatic promotion places in the Championship is generally rubbish.

You'd never know that from how it's marketed (the Championship in particular), but that's the reality.

Price of Football had a segment about the Championship tv figures recently, and basically nobody watches it. They all still get 7 million quid a year tv money, mind you.

It's the classic 'Who the fuck is watching Huddersfield v Blackpool apart from fans of the clubs?'  No one cares about them. People in England watch the PL and nothing else. 

[Jinky67]

7 minutes ago, ahemps said:

That's where I got my figures. He does great work.

Yeah he does, definitely the go to guy for this sort of stuff.

It would also be the wrong mindset for us to consider sharing TV monies with Rangers as a loss. We should consider ourselves fortunate to be in this position

[Jinky67]

9 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Fair enough. I stand corrected. I didn’t know your view was you’d take any route out of Scotland with a view to climbing up to a point where you’d finish behind Man City, Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle, West Ham, Leicester and Everton.

I wish you’d get your way and we could wave you farewell and fcuk off at Abbotsinch Aerodrome.

One questiion though before you pack your suitcase for that away day in Derby…. Assuming you don’t fcuk off to England, and you and your pals remain up here with the rest of us - would you actively welcome a situation whereby it wasn’t ‘Barcelona - Real Madrid’ here, but was ‘Barcelona - Real Madrid - Atletico Madrid’? I’m hoping you would. In fact, maybe you’d welcome a truly competitive Scottish top flight where the only two clubs who have won it in 36 years might finish anywhere from 1st to 5th. 

I’ve made no secret that the 1 thing is love to see is us win in Europe again however failing that then yeah i’d love to see if we could hang in that company and what we could do with Premier League cash and the resulting investment. There has been a lot of big talk about what we could do so id love to see us back that up.

However if that never happens then i have no issue with a 3rd of 4th wheel however that has to come in a way that doesn’t impede the ability of Celtic/Rangers to perform at their current levels. The solution is to find a a way to bring clubs closer to Celtic and Rangers level and not vice versa.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Jinky67

[Desp]

23 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Maybe not a popular opinion however at this stage i’d even consider a route into the English Championship for a shot at their golden goose so your assumption isn’t quite on the money

That route starts about eight tiers below that.  All the best... 

[Dons_1988]

6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:.

However if that never happens then i have no issue with a 3rd of 4th wheel however that has to come in a way that doesn’t impede the ability of Celtic/Rangers to perform at their current levels. The solution is to find a a way to bring clubs closer to Celtic and Rangers level and not vice versa.

 

Don’t you think everyone would prefer if we could bring ourselves up to a higher level? 

A base level knowledge of finance and 5 minutes looking at how this all works shows it’s impossible. 

The way you post on this stuff is honestly infuriating, head in the sand bullshit. 

[Dosser1886]

6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

However if that never happens then i have no issue with a 3rd of 4th wheel however that has to come in a way that doesn’t impede the ability of Celtic/Rangers to perform at their current levels. The solution is to find a a way to bring clubs closer to Celtic and Rangers level and not vice versa.

 

So we pretty much just leave it how it is then? Been mooted before some better distrubution of income, hopefully better quality of opposition and better performance in europe as a result......Truth is both sides of old firm are quite happy how it is thanks very much. Fck the leagues and everyone else in them.

[Jinky67]

10 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Don’t you think everyone would prefer if we could bring ourselves up to a higher level? 

A base level knowledge of finance and 5 minutes looking at how this all works shows it’s impossible. 

The way you post on this stuff is honestly infuriating, head in the sand bullshit. 

It’s an opinion, i’m not asking you to agree or like my responses i genuinely don’t give a shit either way.

I want my team to be successful at a level i want them to be successful at so of course i’m never going to be on board with a proposal that makes that even more difficult however the question was would i be happy with a 3rd club challenging not to give an answer as to how it happens 

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Jinky67

[Jinky67]

12 minutes ago, Desp said:

That route starts about eight tiers below that.  All the best... 

Which is why it’s never likely to happen.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

37 minutes ago, ftk said:

The clubs outside the old firm need to get together and come up with a plan to change things.

Aye. And then it will slide through the 11-1 voting system with ease.

Oops...

[KTID26]

41 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Maybe not a popular opinion however at this stage i’d even consider a route into the English Championship for a shot at their golden goose so your assumption isn’t quite on the money

Ask yourself the question Jinky67. " why would clubs in England want to add the poison that is the Old Firm to their leages ? "

[Dons_1988]

11 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

I want 

Basically sums it up