Deposit Return Recycling Scheme

[NorthernLights]

I tried looking for a post on this already but couldn't see one.

https://www.gov.scot/news/one-year-until-scotlands-deposit-return-scheme/

Its one year until the deposit return scheme for things like cans, plastic and glass bottles is launched.

I have mixed feelings about it. I can see how in theory it can help improve recycling rates and I believe such schemes are already in places in the likes of Germany and have been for many years so there must be data backing up the improvement.

However I currently like how recycling works for me. I have a bin and once every three weeks the council turn up and empty it. I do my best to recycle and my family will testify that I'm the one who makes sure the right stuff goes in the right bin.

I still have a couple of questions. Is there anything stopping me from hording all my cans and bottles until the scheme goes live (except for things like space and possible hygiene reasons) and will we see the councils cut back on things like kerbside recycling as this scheme launches?

 

[Dawson Park Boy]

Forget it.

The scheme will never get off the ground.

Another SG shambles.

[Hard Graft]

1 minute ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Forget it.

The scheme will never get off the ground.

Another SG shambles.

Lorna Slater in charge, between her and the SG it is bound to fail. Looks like another soundbite from SG which will go nowhere.

"The 20p deposit will also provide an incentive to reduce littering, helping to cut the number of bottles and cans discarded in streets and green spaces."

So our cost of shopping is going to rise and if the scheme fails you can guarantee the 20p will not be removed from the items.

When Barrs did away with the deposit on their bottles the price did not fall. 

Who is going to fund the cost of setting up and staffing these centres?

As likely to happen as the low cost Energy company they were going to set up.

[Jambomo]

38 minutes ago, NorthernLights said:

I tried looking for a post on this already but couldn't see one.

https://www.gov.scot/news/one-year-until-scotlands-deposit-return-scheme/

Its one year until the deposit return scheme for things like cans, plastic and glass bottles is launched.

I have mixed feelings about it. I can see how in theory it can help improve recycling rates and I believe such schemes are already in places in the likes of Germany and have been for many years so there must be data backing up the improvement.

However I currently like how recycling works for me. I have a bin and once every three weeks the council turn up and empty it. I do my best to recycle and my family will testify that I'm the one who makes sure the right stuff goes in the right bin.

I still have a couple of questions. Is there anything stopping me from hording all my cans and bottles until the scheme goes live (except for things like space and possible hygiene reasons) and will we see the councils cut back on things like kerbside recycling as this scheme launches?

 

I have friends in Germany and have spent a lot of time there so have seen the scheme over there a bit. If it is the same then the bottles usually have a mark on them to show they are Pfand bottles (just means deposit I think) and those are the ones you get the money back on. It probably isn’t worth saving up the non-deposit ones as it might be able to tell, though I expect you’d just recycle them as normal if you did.

As far as I know their normal recycling service didn’t stop because there will be people who don’t take part in the scheme but also for the non-deposit stuff. It’s probably still good though, because here where I am, I only have a paper/cardboard recycling bin and there are glass etc at the top of the road, but it serves about 4 streets so it’s always too full to use.

The biggest plus point was at big events like Oktoberfest, because you will get people (sometimes homeless people but not always) who go there just to pick up and return the empty bottles people leave. I reckon that’s probably the biggest issue here as well, but people will hopefully be less inclined to leave their empty bottles and cans lying about.
 

I was at Luss on Saturday and we did a bit of litter cleaning on the beach and it was mostly empty bottles/cans. I didn’t realise but apparently the glass bottles can cause fires if left lying in the sun so I hope it’ll help stop that stuff.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Jambomo

[Todd_is_God]

It works well in Germany where, by and large, there are (largely) standardised designs for glass water bottles and beer bottles produced by German companies. This makes washing and refilling them easier (and you can tell this happens as if you import beer from Germany the bottles show signs of wear and tear).

Companies and individuals will typically buy both (relatively cheaply compared to here) in crates, then return a full crate of empties and use them to cover the deposit on a new crate. It feels natural and there is a clear incentive to return as subsequent crates of beer then have a point of sale outlay of under €20 for 24 500ml bottles.

I can't see this working well here for a few reasons. Firstly, bottles are not standardised - they are bespoke to each company meaning only they can wash and refill them. Secondly, cans are king here rather than bottles. Typically sold in smaller quantities there is less incentive to return 4 or 6 empty cans, and these can't be cleaned and refilled anyway. There is no reason to suddenly implement a deposit scheme when we already have a large bin outside our back doors that does the same thing (and is charged for via council tax). Lastly, and this is the bigger one, alcohol duty and minimum unit pricing. Not many people are going to be going to the supermarket and buying a crate (24) of beer bottles at £2 per bottle, plus 20p per bottle, to a total of over £52.

In terms of increasing the overall amount of cans, bottles and plastic being recylcled (which is the aim), I don't believe this alone would make much difference to current levels tbh.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[ICTChris]

8 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

 

The biggest plus point was at big events like Oktoberfest, because you will get people (sometimes homeless people but not always) who go there just to pick up and return the empty bottles people leave

When we were on holiday in Croatia we saw lots of older people going around picking up plastic and bottles, I presume because they had some similar scheme.  Pretty depressing as clearly these people were dirt poor and had to do this to get by.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

I remember seeing people raking through bins in Helsinki to fish out bottles for recycling. A sad thing to witness in one of the wealthiest cities on the planet.

[Todd_is_God]

16 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

If it is the same then the bottles usually have a mark on them to show they are Pfand bottles (just means deposit I think) and those are the ones you get the money back on.

Pfand does indeed simply mean deposit.

The issue I see here is that this would not be a UK wide scheme. Meaning either a deposit amount would need to be added to all packaging despite not being in operation in 92% of the UK, or bespoke packaging would be required just for Scotland.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

There's nothing wrong with raking through bins.

[Lurkst]

Been doing similar at Sainsburys for a couple of years now. I fill the shed with bin bags of cans and bottles, take them round to the shop and get 5p back per item. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

49 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

When we were on holiday in Croatia we saw lots of older people going around picking up plastic and bottles, I presume because they had some similar scheme.  Pretty depressing as clearly these people were dirt poor and had to do this to get by.

I used to do similar at T in the Park on the last day.

Needs must. 

[Eednud]

We’ve had a container deposit scheme in South Australia since 1977 and you really don’t see many discarded bottles or cans. Current rate is 10 cents as per the list below. If you want to make use of the system you take your empties to a collection depot, wait while they unload your car, count them then give you some money ($68+ on my last trip). You get used to people gathering cans and bottles from public rubbish bins and quite a few do the rounds on recycling bin day to see what they can gather. 

Drink containers in the scheme

Beverages containers of less than one litre that have a 10 cent deposit are:

• flavoured milk
• fruit juice.

Beverage containers up to and including three litres that have a 10 cent deposit are:

• water - plain, still or carbonated
• carbonated soft drinks
• non-carbonated soft drinks including:
  • vitamin drinks
  • sport drinks
  • iced teas
• alcoholic cider
• beers/ales/stouts
• flavoured alcoholic beverages with a wine or spirit base (RTDs).

Exempt drink containers

• Plain milk containers of any size
• glass wine and spirit bottles
• fruit juice one litre or more
• flavoured milk one litre or more.

[Dan Steele]

Has to be a good thing but of course there's always one or two who immediately pounce on it being bad or unworkable as it's a SG move. 

[Abdul_Latif]

Implementing this during a cost of living crisis is not going to be popular at all.

Families are already struggling with groceries, never mind adding £3.60 to a slab of 18 soft drinks on the shopping.

Even if you do get the deposit back, the reality is some families will not be able to afford the initial price hike in the first place, and in any case not every can / bottle will make it to the returns machine.

 

 

[williemillersmoustache]

9 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

Has to be a good thing but of course there's always one or two who immediately pounce on it being bad or unworkable as it's a SG move. 

It BEGGARS BELIEF that in the middle of a CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS that THAT ESSENNPEE should TAKE THEIR EYE OFF THE BALL by focusing on THE DAY JOB. It just goes to show how STURGEON is OUT Of TOUCH with her *checks notes* recycling scheme OBSESSION. 

[Dan Steele]

11 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

It BEGGARS BELIEF that in the middle of a CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS that THAT ESSENNPEE should TAKE THEIR EYE OFF THE BALL by focusing on THE DAY JOB. It just goes to show how STURGEON is OUT Of TOUCH with her *checks notes* recycling scheme OBSESSION. 

Aye, more attention seeking.

[Abdul_Latif]

35 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

It BEGGARS BELIEF that in the middle of a CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS that THAT ESSENNPEE should TAKE THEIR EYE OFF THE BALL by focusing on THE DAY JOB. It just goes to show how STURGEON is OUT Of TOUCH with her *checks notes* recycling scheme OBSESSION. 

I’m gonna hold the middle ground here, because recycling is actually a very important issue. Why not make it law that containers have to be recycled, without requiring a price increase?

20p per container is not justifiable when families are already struggling.

[Bob in Denny]

1 hour ago, Lurkst said:

Been doing similar at Sainsburys for a couple of years now. I fill the shed with bin bags of cans and bottles, take them round to the shop and get 5p back per item. 

Mrs BiD does the same..

couple of quid a trip....

[Lurkst]

4 minutes ago, Bob in Denny said:

Mrs BiD does the same..

couple of quid a trip....

I get around £3 for a black bag full, usually do a couple at a time. 

The new machines are pretty good, accepting cans, plus both glass and plastic bottles.

[Todd_is_God]

1 hour ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

Has to be a good thing but of course there's always one or two who immediately pounce on it being bad or unworkable as it's a SG move. 

Highlighting potential obstacles to its success doesn't mean you disagree with the underlying principle.

RE: storing all used tubs, cans and bottles in bags to take the shop en masse - I don't personally see the appeal of hoarding used cans and bottles in a bag in the garage when i already have a large two wheeled bit of plastic out the back to hoard them in, the collection of which is currently paid for via council tax.

I also usually get my shopping delivered so it would be an interesting policy choice for the SG to want me to reduce my carbon footprint as much as possible, then at the same time actively encourage me to drive to the supermarket to recycle stuff I already can at home.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Todd_is_God