Celtic v Hearts. 21st August.

[wastecoatwilly]

11 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Of course he's not shite, he's outstanding.  Hearts though got him for nothing, not 9m.  And he's on a wage nothing like what he's worth because he's 39 and a Hearts fan winding his career down.

We've spent a bit of money, but we didn't spend any of the transfer fees you're quoting on these players, so it's irrelevant that Gordon was, a long time ago, a 9m keeper.  He isn't now.

Yes you're starting to get it M8,the value of players are irrelevant,they also get better with age and experience.

[Dons_1988]

4 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

If the Scottish Cup for example has been won 4 times in the last 10 years by clubs outwith Celtic and Rangers what’s changed that you think that trend won’t continue?

This question is obvious. Really, really obvious. 

[Jacksgranda]

7 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

You're doing the usual OF thing of playing dumb and completely ignoring the context.

By season ticket sale time in summer 1995 Celtic fans had 'endured' a whole seven years since their last title win. They had a new stadium and a wealthy new backer who had already shown he was investing in the team. They had just won the Scottish Cup and it was, to any sensible eyes, completely obvious they would be at least challenging for the title that season and in the seasons to come.

So, the fans came back. This is glory-hunting. Opand and shut case.

7 years, eh? The poor hard done by souls actually went a whole 9 years between title "triumphs". (Their 35th and 36th titles.)

How do other teams fans compare (excluding the Second World War)?

Dumbarton - currently 124 year wait since last title win

Hearts - 5 years until their first title, a 2 year gap, then a 54 year gap, currently 62 years since their last win

Third Lanark - 14 years to win their only title, 56 years until they were liquidated

Hibs - 10 year wait from admission for first title, 38 year wait for their second, currently 70 years since their last win

Motherwell - 39 years wait from admission to only title to date, currently 84 years

Aberdeen - 46 years wait from admission to first title, 15 year wait for second, currently 37 years since last title win

Dundee - 63 years wait between admission and their only title to date, currently 60 years since last title win

Kilmarnock - 64 years wait from admission and only title to date, currently 57 years since last title win

Dundee United - taking their formation date as 1909, 66 years between admission and their only title to date, currently 39 years since their last title win.

Not only did the majority of clubs have to wait a lot more than 9 years for their first/only title, never mind their 36th, but Celtic won their first title after only 3 years. Yet their fans have to "endure" barren spells of 9 years without a title. The poor lambs, however do they stick it, they could certainly never be a Dumbarton supporter.

[Jinky67]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

This question is obvious. Really, really obvious. 

Then answer it

[Jinky67]

2 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

That's pretty misleading, considering the circumstances in Scottish football in that period, as well you know.

The Old Firm have won 5 of the last 6 Scottish Cups and 5 of the last 6 League Cups. The only exception was the weird behind-closed-doors season.

Is it? It’s a similar number if go 10 years further back than that into the noughties.

The financial gap has always been there over the past 20 years so unsure why you think it’s becoming less likely that you can win a trophy 

[Drew Brees]

7 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

You had a wealthy backer, a new stadium, had just won the cup, and had started spending money on the team. What did Celtic fans expect to happen next?

To compete with a team that can throw millions at the likes of gascoinge and laudrup, who’d been buying top English players and attracting top international players for yrs. We were building a team and were very fortunate rangers had a brain fart the year we stopped the 10. And to illustrate how strong they were, they went on to win the next 2 titles. It was hardly a forgone conclusion that we’d win the title but the fans still backed the club by buying shares and selling out the stadium in hope.

 

You still not checked the def of glory hunter? 

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

5 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Yes you're starting to get it M8,the value of players are irrelevant,they also get better with age and experience.

The current value of players is clearly relevant.  It's why clubs pay for them.  It's also why I'm not calling James Mccarthy a 15m pound player, or Aaron Mooy a 10m player.  .

 

 

[VincentGuerin]

2 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Is it? It’s a similar number if go 10 years further back than that into the noughties.

The financial gap has always been there over the past 20 years so unsure why you think it’s becoming less likely that you can win a trophy 

It's not really complicated.

Your pals came back, and you've both upped the spending since then, and now it's extremely unlikely anyone else will win anything.

We're back to the spell between Hearts' 1998 and 2006 cup wins when Livi's League Cup (2004) was the only non-OF trophy win out of 15.

[VincentGuerin]

6 minutes ago, Drew Brees said:

To compete with a team that can throw millions at the likes of gascoinge and laudrup, who’d been buying top English players and attracting top international players for yrs. We were building a team and were very fortunate rangers had a brain fart the year we stopped the 10. And to illustrate how strong they were, they went on to win the next 2 titles. It was hardly a forgone conclusion that we’d win the title but the fans still backed the club by buying shares and selling out the stadium in hope.

 

You still not checked the def of glory hunter? 

Sure thing, pal. Quite how Celtic could have seen a title win as a possibility in summer 1995 (before they came within 4 points of winning it) is beyond me.

Best fans in the world, for me.

[Henrik's tongue]

18 minutes ago, gannonball said:

 

Much the same happened a few weeks ago, same ref. If you have f**k all possession it’s likely you are going to pick up cards, this isn’t a phenomenon exclusive to Scottish football I’m sad to tell all the paranoid pnbers on here. It is more likely to happen though due to how much possession both clubs get in most games.

Bennett goes off the rails whenever Rangers drop points - despite predicting they’ll drop points before a lot of matches.

He’s just in a huff, the daft big baldy b*****d. 

[Drew Brees]

2 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Sure thing, pal. Quite how Celtic could have seen a title win as a possibility in summer 1995 (before they came within 4 points of winning it) is beyond me.

Best fans in the world, for me.

So optimism is the criteria you use to gauge ‘Glory Hunter’. As I said, one of the dumbest things I’ve read on here.  

[Jinky67]

3 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

It's not really complicated.

Your pals came back, and you've both upped the spending since then, and now it's extremely unlikely anyone else will win anything.

We're back to the spell between Hearts' 1998 and 2006 cup wins when Livi's League Cup (2004) was the only non-OF trophy win out of 15.

Actually our spending in the BR seasons wasnt massively out of kilter, the most he spent in a season was 13 million and 9 of that was on Edouard alone and ultimately became part of the reason he left.

Lennon spent big in his windows however what he got for that spend has been the subject of much banter on here and rightly so, huge sums of money chucked down the swanny.

Ange has spent big however some of that to me has been a necessity to rebuild the crud Lennon left us with and to actually try and take a step forward in Europe however the level of spend is still a little bit less than what MON spent to rebuild the squad in 2000.

I think you do yourself a disservice however that’s just my opinion

 

[VincentGuerin]

2 minutes ago, Drew Brees said:

So optimism is the criteria you use to gauge ‘Glory Hunter’. As I said, one of the dumbest things I’ve read on here.  

Optimism

No. Thinking your side is going to win the league, and having a reasonable expectation that they will because they are spending millions of pounds on players.

'Optimism'

 

[VincentGuerin]

1 minute ago, Jinky67 said:

Ange has spent big

 

Aye, end of story, really.

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, Jinky67 said:

Actually our spending in the BR seasons wasnt massively out of kilter, the most he spent in a season was 13 million and 9 of that was on Edouard alone and ultimately became part of the reason he left.

Lennon spent big in his windows however what he got for that spend has been the subject of much banter on here and rightly so, huge sums of money chucked down the swanny.

Ange has spent big however some of that to me has been a necessity to rebuild the crud Lennon left us with and to actually try and take a step forward in Europe however the level of spend is still a little bit less than what MON spent to rebuild the squad in 2000.

I think you do yourself a disservice however that’s just my opinion

 

Only 13 million? Goodness.

[wastecoatwilly]

5 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

The current value of players is clearly relevant.  It's why clubs pay for them.  It's also why I'm not calling James Mccarthy a 15m pound player, or Aaron Mooy a 10m player.  .

 

 

Yet Celtic's best player and captain cost nothing also the price tag guarantees nothing.

[VincentGuerin]

6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Actually our spending in the BR seasons wasnt massively out of kilter, the most he spent in a season was 13 million and 9 of that was on Edouard alone and ultimately became part of the reason he left.

 

4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Only 13 million? Goodness.

You can see why he left. Imagine being expected to win things against the likes of Hearts and Aberdeen on such paltry budgets?

Good job there's something inside so strong, or whatever.

[Drew Brees]

4 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Thinking your side is going to win the league, and having a reasonable expectation that they will because they are spending millions of pounds on players.

 

Still less than our biggest rivals who could attract better players and pay larger fees and wages. The fans who backed Celtic in the mid to late 90’s were def glory hunters. 
 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

21 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

If the Scottish Cup for example has been won 4 times in the last 10 years by clubs outwith Celtic and Rangers what’s changed that you think that trend won’t continue?

Rangers being back to full strength and Neil Lennon leaving has made things a bit tougher for everyone else

[Jinky67]

3 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Only 13 million? Goodness.

I didn’t say only 13 million though in an attempt to trivialise the amount.