Mark Connolly Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 minute ago, coprolite said: He is both real and fictional isn’t he?Depends what you mean by “mohammed”. There was probably a guy called Mohammed who was a leader of a faction or tribe out of Arabia. There’s little evidence supporting lots of the things he’s supposed to have done. Like many contemporary religious stories there’s probably a blend of real events and complete fantasy. Eg St Columba probably did go to visit the King of the Picts but probably didn’t encounter the Loch Ness monster. ”James Bond” was a real historical person. There’s little supporting evidence of him fighting a man with metal teeth in the middle of a laser battle in a space station. I do accept that there’s more reliable evidence for Mohammed and his military adventures than there is for Jesus and his seditious magic tricks. I notice you didn't deny his noncery though, that's you on the fatwah too 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: I notice you didn't deny his noncery though, that's you on the fatwah too If any tech savvy ayatollahs are reading, I access the web through an untraceable chain of hijacked bot machines so that’s not my IP address. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mark Connolly said: Muhammad is widely accepted to have been a real person. Agreed on the other points though, although there is some belief amongst modern scholars that she was 13, which apparently changes stuff. So in short: Muhammad was real, but he was a nonce Not really, because marriage in Arabic cultures was similar to the custom of betrothal in Europe at the time. Marriage basically meant you were promised to that person but didn't indicate that the relationship was consummated. While obviously a massively outdated concept, it was probably beneficial to young girls as, like being betrothed, it meant that it was illegal to rape them and therefore force them to marry you, which was particularly popular if the girl/woman in question had lots of land and/or wealth. Edited August 13, 2022 by Bully Wee Villa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 54 minutes ago, Venti said: Hitmen must be a bit pish if the Fatwa was issued in 1989. It was the hitman and her back then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 46 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said: Outrageous! It's not a blatant rip-off at all. Rushdie was very quick to acknowledge the importance of Grass's novel, though. But there is a more obvious German connection, as art critic Franz Roh was influential (along with Cuban writer Alejo Carpentier) in developing the idea of magical realism. The idea took off most notably in Latin America literature from about 1930s so maybe both novels owe more to the incredible works of Central/South American writers. There is a lot of The Tin Drum in Midnight's Children. The three act structure of Independence, War, Contemporary politics. Oskar is born the day the Nazis come to power, Salmeen is born at the moment of Indian independence. Oskar thinks his mother's Polish lover is really his father, Saleem thinks his mother's Muslim lover is really his father. They both try to raise sons who aren't actually their sons. Both have passages where someone hides inside an old woman's skirt. Both the main characters have supernatural powers that they claim to use to drive historical events. They both have strange health problems. They both use food in the same way, in TD it's onions and blood sausage and MC it's chutney and peppers. There are other novels which are obviously inspired by The Tin Drum like A Prayer For Owen Meany and 100 Years of Solitude but Midnight's Children is basically a remake set in India. As for Carpentier he hadn't been translated into English let alone German when Grass was writing the Tin Drum so I don't think he was a direct influence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Detournement said: There is a lot of The Tin Drum in Midnight's Children. The three act structure of Independence, War, Contemporary politics. Oskar is born the day the Nazis come to power, Salmeen is born at the moment of Indian independence. Oskar thinks his mother's Polish lover is really his father, Saleem thinks his mother's Muslim lover is really his father. They both try to raise sons who aren't actually their sons. Both have passages where someone hides inside an old woman's skirt. Both the main characters have supernatural powers that they claim to use to drive historical events. They both have strange health problems. They both use food in the same way, in TD it's onions and blood sausage and MC it's chutney and peppers. There are other novels which are obviously inspired by The Tin Drum like A Prayer For Owen Meany and 100 Years of Solitude but Midnight's Children is basically a remake set in India. As for Carpentier he hadn't been translated into English let alone German when Grass was writing the Tin Drum so I don't think he was a direct influence. We believe you, you've read the books. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 There’s a boy along the road from me called Mohammed. I’ll get opinion later if I see him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empty It Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Imagine trying to justify a guy getting stabbed in the neck because you didn't like his books... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Empty It said: Imagine trying to justify a guy getting stabbed in the neck because you didn't like his books... I haven't justified it once. I've probably got more sympathy for Rushdie than he had for the people who were murdered after he refused to withdraw publication. Edited August 13, 2022 by Detournement 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 33 minutes ago, Detournement said: There are other novels which are obviously inspired by The Tin Drum Just as Grass was inspired by Alfred Doblin's Berlin Alexanderplatz. Both Rushdie and Grass owe a great deal to the way the devices of magical realism can deal with different historical contexts. Anyhoo, the sun's out, the pub is open, so I'm off to get ready for the Forfar game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 45 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkay said: There’s a boy along the road from me called Mohammed. I’ll get opinion later if I see him. My mistake, he’s called Mahmood. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkay said: My mistake, he’s called Mahmood. What do you call an Indian cloakroom attendant? Mahat Macoat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Was looking for a new book to read last night and after seeing the news about Rushdie I decided to download a sample of The Satanic Verses. Managed about 16 pages before I gave up, and they were a struggle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Was looking for a new book to read last night and after seeing the news about Rushdie I decided to download a sample of The Satanic Verses. Managed about 16 pages before I gave up, and they were a struggle. I also downloaded a sample ages ago. I have yet to read it though. Thanks for saving me the effort. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said: I also downloaded a sample ages ago. I have yet to read it though. Thanks for saving me the effort. He’s no John Grisham. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanburn Dave Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 48 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: He’s no John Grisham. True, but he's probably better than Lee Child and Andrew Child based on their last 2 books. I remember when Jack Reacher books used to be good....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Deanburn Dave said: True, but he's probably better than Lee Child and Andrew Child based on their last 2 books. I remember when Jack Reacher books used to be good....... Just because an adult is better than a child… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 What does esteemed literary critic Darren Mackie think of Rushdie's work? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blades Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Lurkst said: It was the hitman and her back then. Bloody women! Useless! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 Salman Rushdie off ventilator and able to talk - BBC News Quote Author Salman Rushdie has been taken off a ventilator and is able to talk again, a day after being stabbed. Mr Rushdie, 75, was attacked while speaking at an event in New York state and was in a critical condition. He has faced years of death threats for his novel The Satanic Verses, which some Muslims see as blasphemous. The man charged over Friday's attack has pleaded not guilty to attempted murder, and has been remanded in custody without bail. Hadi Matar, 24, is accused of running onto the stage and stabbing Mr Rushdie at least 10 times in the face, neck and abdomen. Following the attack, his agent Andrew Wylie said the novelist had suffered severed nerves in one arm, damage to his liver, and would likely lose an eye. How shite at murdering do you have to be to stab a 75 year old ten times and not kill him? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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