What is the answer?

[Ewan8472]

6 hours ago, Melanius Mullarkay said:

It was indeed. Although I could barely see it given the fog.

A North Sea " haar ( commentator ) " special

[Ken Deans]

Celtic and Rangers have been pitiful. Plenty of reasons for that but the main one is they're shite.

Those of us who care about the Scottish game must ask ourselves whether our clubs are doing enough to bring on home grown talent.? Sure its an easy fix to bring in an established player from elsewhere but nobody bar the ugly sisters is going to win the league.

Just look what Scottish talent is doing down south if given the chance

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

15 hours ago, ancientnoise said:

Haud oan. We won the away tie, and were all over them in the return.

Hit the woodwork several times as well.

True, one of our worst results, but in no way a humping.

Shouldn't be in the same list as these 7-against humiliations.

 

 

Connah’s Quay Nomads

[DiegoDiego]

Celtic and Rangers have been pitiful. Plenty of reasons for that but the main one is they're shite.
Those of us who care about the Scottish game must ask ourselves whether our clubs are doing enough to bring on home grown talent.? Sure its an easy fix to bring in an established player from elsewhere but nobody bar the ugly sisters is going to win the league.
Just look what Scottish talent is doing down south if given the chance

That argument doesn't really hold up. Liverpool fielded as many English players as Sevco did Scots, Leipzig one more German than Celtic did Scots. At Champions League level number of home grown players is largely irrelevant.

Rangers aren't going to close the gap on Liverpool by fielding more Scots any more than Ross County would close the gap on Rangers by doing likewise.

[VincentGuerin]

I don't think this is rocket science.

The Old Firm are getting battered for the same reasons they batter everyone else.

And Hearts have performed to par so far. We've won the game we should have won, and been beaten by the teams you'd expect to beat us.

The only way we become competitive in terms of getting through the group is by getting in two or three times, using the money and experience to build, and eventually getting better.

We're doing no better or worse than any other non-OF team would be doing with our draw. Add in the injuries we've got, and I don't really see why anyone would expect Hearts' current position to be any different.

[Monkey Tennis]

I've got the answer.

It's to stop caring about a party to which we're not invited.

 

 

That the CL both exemplifies and dictates the damage football has sustained in recent decades, is almost poetic.

[Merkie84]

^^^
 

Exactly this. 
 

Our teams are getting humped because they are supposed to. 
 

It is the way the competition has been designed, that the big wealthy clubs from big wealthy leagues succeed because that is what makes the biggest revenues. 
 

Diddy clubs from diddy leagues are there to make up the numbers and go out early. It is not just Scottish teams on the end of shoeings from the elite clubs. 

[JOEY VIMSANTE]

I think if Scottish Premiership clubs had at least another 20 million pounds a year each  then they would compete well in Europe. 

The budget is the issue. Outside the Old. Firm, the Scottish Premiership sides are not that wealthy. 

[VincentGuerin]

31 minutes ago, JOEY VIMSANTE said:

I think if Scottish Premiership clubs had at least another 20 million pounds a year each  then they would compete well in Europe. 

The budget is the issue. Outside the Old. Firm, the Scottish Premiership sides are not that wealthy. 

[Otis Blue]

On 27/10/2022 at 16:45, Monkey Tennis said:

I've got the answer.

It's to stop caring about a party to which we're not invited.

This will probably soon come to pass. Is it not the case that the CL will soon morph into a larger league structure to which clubs from diddy leagues will be excluded? The threat from the alternative European Super League proposers hasn't gone away yet (subject to a legal case I think) and so UEFA is still obliged to react soon and their defensive solution will be to further restructure the CL format and head off the ESL at the pass so to speak.

The Europa and Conference Leagues will be the homes for the diddy country clubs.

[LiviLion]

19 hours ago, JOEY VIMSANTE said:

I think if Scottish Premiership clubs had at least another 20 million pounds a year each  then they would compete well in Europe. 

The budget is the issue. Outside the Old. Firm, the Scottish Premiership sides are not that wealthy. 

Why has no one thought of this before?

[HibeeJibee]

20 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

This will probably soon come to pass. Is it not the case that the CL will soon morph into a larger league structure to which clubs from diddy leagues will be excluded?

Next season is last with 'traditional' groups in CL + EL + ECL.

From season 2024-25 they're single "leagues" of 36 clubs playing 8 randomly-drawn ties (6 in ECL): top 24 qualify for knockouts, with top 8 byed into 'Last 16'.




These would be spread over 10 midweeks... extra 4 being:
* domestic midweek in late September (usually occupied by Scottish League Cup QFs)    only for EL
* midweek before Christmas     only for ECL
* last 2 midweeks in January     not for ECL
(existing opening European groupstage midweek in mid-September becomes only for CL)

There will be 2 midweeks with Friday matches.

Unclear if domestic leagues can utilise the 2 dates (4 in ECL) particular clubs are 'free'.




CL slots unaltered except:

Where do the 4 extra teams come from?

1) The third-placed team of the league ranked fifth by UEFA will go direct to the group stage (at present, that club must play two qualifying rounds). Historically that has almost always been France.

2) An additional team via the "Champions Path" qualifying route, which features the leagues ranked outside the top 10 in the UEFA Country Coefficient.

3 & 4) Two places are reserved for the two countries with the highest coefficient score in current season. This season, fifth place in the Premier League and second in the Dutch Eredivisie would go direct to the Champions League group stage.

Edited November 3, 2022 by HibeeJibee

[Sergeant Wilson]

20 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Next season is last with 'traditional' groups in CL + EL + ECL.

From season 2024-25 they're single "leagues" of 36 clubs playing 8 randomly-drawn ties (6 in ECL): top 24 qualify for knockouts.




These would be spread out over 10 dates... extra 4 coming from:
* domestic midweek in late September (usually occupied by Scottish League Cup QFs)
* midweek before Christmas
* last 2 midweeks in January

Unclear if domestic leagues can utilise the 2 dates (4 in ELC) particular clubs are 'free'.




CL slots unaltered except:

Where do the 4 extra teams come from?

1) The third-placed team of the league ranked fifth by UEFA will go direct to the group stage (at present, that club must play two qualifying rounds). Historically that has almost always been France.

2) An additional team via the "Champions Path" qualifying route, which features the leagues ranked outside the top 10 in the UEFA Country Coefficient.

3 & 4) Two places are reserved for the two countries with the highest coefficient score in current season. This season, fifth place in the Premier League and second in the Dutch Eredivisie would go direct to the Champions League group stage.

I'm looking forward to Scottish pundits addressing this already.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

Phew, thank goodness they binned the Super League idea. This is far more egalitarian.

[HibeeJibee]

Worth adding it's also proposed to play the Super Cup between the Europa League and Conference League winners; with Champions League semi-finalists contesting an "Opening Tournament Final 4" - latter could be held worldwide, not just in Europe.

(That was included in European Clubs Association publication about adjustments. There has been a press report suggesting a rival proposal sees all 3 winners plus the Major League Soccer winner play a Final 4 in USA).

Edited November 3, 2022 by HibeeJibee

[KirkieRR]

Back un the Old Europe managers and pundits used to talk about 'European games as places to learm, to become better teams.

 

Remember Aberdeen getting wellied by Liverpool? Next time they played a top English team (Ipswich - yes, younger people, they really were a top team then) they won comfortably and by then were able to handle much wealthier sides (like Bayern and Real Madrid). They had learned. And the team was still all-Scottish.

 

Meanwhile, today, Rangers get hammered and just learn how to get hammered.

 

Conclusions; 1) Scottish players back then were better, rleative to other nations, 2) Our clubs don't learn from defeats any more. Perhaps, I accept, because the structure of Euro football is designed to prevent them from doing so.

[Jacksgranda]

On 03/11/2022 at 16:42, LiviLion said:

Why has no one thought of this before?

I think a British cup would sort things out, 20 000 000 each no bother - 40 teams outwith the gruesome twosome = 800 000 000, I'm sure there is a generous sponsor waiting patiently in the wings...

[ahemps]

It will only be a few years until this new CL format have games played on the weekends. 

The super league will happen albeit it's just going to happen gradually rather than the full swop they tried last year.

 

[jamamafegan]

Bump.

Okay, they aren’t out yet - but that is a total shocker from Hibs. It’s another humiliating result for a Scottish team in Europe. Comfortably beaten by a pub team at an Andorran leisure centre with actual farm animals loitering around the ground.  Even if Hibs do go through (which at this stage I have no reason to believe they will) they are going to get destroyed by their next opponents.

What on earth is going on?

[DoingThe42]

I don't think missing out on the League Cup group stages is helpful to the teams in Europe.

We often see Scottish teams come a cropper in these summer games, and it's often the first competitive game they play. I think a lot of these results wouldn't happen later in our season. Would Hibs have been better prepared by playing three competitive games before today? I think maybe. Hearts beat RFS home and away last autumn. They may well have lost to them in July.

Some of the cause is obviously our teams being rubbish. But it certainly doesn't help to be going into these games miles off fully match fit.

And if you're not playing the early qualifiers, you start the league season at a bit of a disadvantage. Hearts and Aberdeen will be going in cold against teams with four competitive(ish) games in the tank.

Edited July 27, 2023 by DoingThe42