What is the answer?

[effeffsee_the2nd]

Nothing defeatist about their attitude but hearts we’re certainly architects of their own downfall in both legs and that’s without the red card

Edited August 26, 2022 by effeffsee_the2nd

[Elixir]

On 26/08/2022 at 16:31, DiegoDiego said:

It's been a six-year wait for Hearts, four years for FCZ, hardly a difference maker. You fucked it.

They spend 50% more on wages than we do. Are you able to comprehend this? They scooshed the league ahead of Champions League regulars Basel and Young Boys last season. The tie quite literally went to par, relative to the resources of each club.

 

On 26/08/2022 at 16:51, HailHailHayley said:

Out of curiosity I've just checked where FC Zurich are in the Swiss League atm. They're bottom. Last. 10th of 10.

Why do other SPFL fans put such low expectations on their own teams? Hearts should be beating the bottom club in Switzerland.

Just because they have had a poor start to their domestic season doesn't mean the reigning Swiss Champions won't play better in Europe. The average top flight Swiss club are considerably wealthier than the average Scottish Premiership club.

 

On 26/08/2022 at 17:39, HailHailHayley said:

Fine, maybe "should" is too strong but at least acknowledge it's a bad result against a beatable team. 

This line of 'oh well it was the mighty Zurich so Hearts were always gonna lose' is just so defeatist & it's the type of attitude which holds Scottish football back.

They were beatable, but it didn't happen and there is no shame or embarrassment over how the tie panned out. We can take the lessons from it into our Conference League group and hopefully have a different outcome in the Europa League play-off next season, which I expect us to qualify for again.

 

On 26/08/2022 at 18:14, DiegoDiego said:

Fans having a defeatist attitude after the event as a coping mechanism is far, far down the list of things holding Scottish football back. It makes next to no difference.

I'm annoyed we couldn't make the most of all our pressure in the first half at Tynecastle and get that elusive goal, if that helps?

Edited August 28, 2022 by Elixir

[DiegoDiego]

They spend 50% more on wages than we do. Are you able to comprehend this?

Of course I am, but that's not the part of your post I was responding to.

[Ewan8472]

On 12/08/2022 at 11:23, MrIrvinePollock said:

Maybe stop ploughing loads of cash on poor foreign players ....and use that money to produce and employ full time youth coaches who can work on producing quality Scottish talent?

There does seem to be a debate about the standard of player Rangers are signing.

Maybe they are still to develop but it might be a long time !

and Rangers are supposed to have some good , young ( Scottish ) players but will they get a chance ?

 

Too many non Scots in the premiership

 

[DiegoDiego]

Too many non Scots in the premiership

Are you seriously suggesting clubs could get Scottish players better than the foreign ones they're signing for the same price? You've either not thought this through or are xenophobic.

[ahemps]

On 26/08/2022 at 17:39, HailHailHayley said:

Fine, maybe "should" is too strong but at least acknowledge it's a bad result against a beatable team. 

This line of 'oh well it was the mighty Zurich so Hearts were always gonna lose' is just so defeatist & it's the type of attitude which holds Scottish football back.

Please tell me you clapped Celtic doing a lap of honour after a 3-0 defeat then convince me that it was not a case of defeatist attitude from your players and fans?

[Ewan8472]

12 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

 

Are you seriously suggesting clubs could get Scottish players better than the foreign ones they're signing for the same price? You've either not thought this through or are xenophobic.

Former , not the latter.

It is just depressing how few good Scottish players there are.

The national team could be facing another central defence crisis

 

 

[DiegoDiego]

Former , not the latter.
It is just depressing how few good Scottish players there are.
The national team could be facing another central defence crisis
 
 

I get your point about the national team, but in this day and age it has little to do with the topic of club success in Europe.

[FredFlintsone]

Not a great week then for our Scottish clubs. They didn't manage a single goal and collectively lost ahem... 11-0.

I suppose if Sligo Rovers are beating our 5th best team home and away then we should not be surprised. 

[Willie adie]

It puzzles me that do much is made of qualifying for Europe only to be meekly put out in the first two rounds,. Does it not come down to the SFA nominating teams decided on thier league placing, 

How about the SFA say" nah they're all shite don't bother this year"

[Ya Bezzer!]

On 07/09/2022 at 23:39, DiegoDiego said:

Are you seriously suggesting clubs could get Scottish players better than the foreign ones they're signing for the same price? You've either not thought this through or are xenophobic.

The single biggest reason the Scottish league is completely shite is we don't produce anywhere near enough talent and what talent we do produce is almost instantly snapped up because the low yield, sell on instantly process has been going on for a long, long time. 

Back in the eighties loads of Scottish players went to youth sides in England or were playing in various English leagues right up to the very top level.  It didn't really impact the Scottish leagues because there was still plenty top talent around. 

Now I'll admit that more than likely modern economics would have taken guys like Willie Miller, Maurice Malpas, Paul McStay etc down south but the point is if you produce enough good talent consistently the overall player base doesn't get watered down.

The general standard of the player base in the Scottish Premier League these days is absolute garbage. 

In important positions like striker or goalkeeper almost no young Scottish players get a chance to develop while we import in tripe like Aaron Chapman, Yves Makalamby or Mark Birighitti.

How much foreign dross floats through our league ever season never to be seen again without making any impact whatsoever? 

Sure Jota is a great player, he's earned his spot in our league but what about Jay Emmanuel-Thomas, Corey Panter, Armand Gnanduillet, Justin Amaluzor, Eetu Vertainen, Kristian Dennis, Chris Mueller etc, etc.  Just a small selection of last seasons nobodies we pay for nothing while committing footballing hari-kari. 

It would actually be interesting to go through, say every foreign striker employed in our league over the last 10 years and see how many of them actually scored, say, more than 5 goals or even at all.

[wastecoatwilly]

On 08/09/2022 at 09:34, ahemps said:

Please tell me you clapped Celtic doing a lap of honour after a 3-0 defeat then convince me that it was not a case of defeatist attitude from your players and fans?

This is nonsense,all you have to do is listen to what the players and manager said after the game.
Having an appreciation of the game win lose or draw has feck all to do with a defeatist attitude M8.

[wastecoatwilly]

On 12/08/2022 at 18:06, craigkillie said:

 

Last weekend there were only two matches across the top two divisions of English football that didn't feature a Scottish player. There are plenty scattered about in the league below that as well - I didn't check how many.

The best young players are being snapped up by English clubs at 16 and 17 before they've even had a chance to feature in our game. Our young Scotland U17 captain left for Newcastle this summer, we had Liam Smith head off to Man City a couple of years back, and even the best teenagers from Celtic and Rangers have been lured to bigger clubs down south. Steven Naismith played over 100 times for Killie after making his debut at 17 - if we had someone of his ability now we'd be lucky if we even saw him play a single game. Even if they do break through to the first team, they're often gone within a year like Calvin Ramsay.

The same goes for your sort of run of the mill Scottish Premiership players too. Shaun Rooney turned down Killie and probably other Scottish clubs to go to Fleetwood, Callum Hendry ended up at Salford when there would have been offers on the table from here, and that will have been replicated across Scottish football this summer.

When you lose so many players on such a regular basis it's inevitable that you're going to have to bring in foreign guys to plug the gaps. There simply aren't enough remaining Scottish players capable of playing at this level - where do you think these guys are going to suddenly appear from?

I agree with some of that but there is a few points i disagree with, Hartlepool taking 6 or 7 players from Scotland is down to the manager plus taking 16 and 17 year old players before they're fully developed is a pure gamble by clubs.
Any Scots player that leaves say to England or Germany have to be better than the English or German players already at the clubs the same for the foreign guys coming here.

Edited September 10, 2022 by wastecoatwilly

[DiegoDiego]

The single biggest reason the Scottish league is completely shite is we don't produce anywhere near enough talent and what talent we do produce is almost instantly snapped up because the low yield, sell on instantly process has been going on for a long, long time. 
Back in the eighties loads of Scottish players went to youth sides in England or were playing in various English leagues right up to the very top level.  It didn't really impact the Scottish leagues because there was still plenty top talent around. 
Now I'll admit that more than likely modern economics would have taken guys like Willie Miller, Maurice Malpas, Paul McStay etc down south but the point is if you produce enough good talent consistently the overall player base doesn't get watered down.
The general standard of the player base in the Scottish Premier League these days is absolute garbage. 
In important positions like striker or goalkeeper almost no young Scottish players get a chance to develop while we import in tripe like Aaron Chapman, Yves Makalamby or Mark Birighitti.
How much foreign dross floats through our league ever season never to be seen again without making any impact whatsoever? 
Sure Jota is a great player, he's earned his spot in our league but what about Jay Emmanuel-Thomas, Corey Panter, Armand Gnanduillet, Justin Amaluzor, Eetu Vertainen, Kristian Dennis, Chris Mueller etc, etc.  Just a small selection of last seasons nobodies we pay for nothing while committing footballing hari-kari. 
It would actually be interesting to go through, say every foreign striker employed in our league over the last 10 years and see how many of them actually scored, say, more than 5 goals or even at all.

I disagree with a lot of that.

Firstly, our league isn't completely shite. Even if you take away our top two performing clubs we still outshine most nations of our size once you also take away their top two performing clubs.

Secondly, a club in the Premiership (not the Premier League for f**k's sake) signing a foreigner doesn't mean that a Scot stops playing football, they'll simply play for a club further down the pecking order. If the Scot was good enough he'd play for a better club. We hardly have a championship full of potential Premiership-winning Scots who aren't being signed by better clubs because of their ethnicity.

[wastecoatwilly]

4 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

I disagree with a lot of that.

Firstly, our league isn't completely shite. Even if you take away our top two performing clubs we still outshine most nations of our size once you also take away their top two performing clubs.

Secondly, a club in the Premiership (not the Premier League for f**k's sake) signing a foreigner doesn't mean that a Scot stops playing football, they'll simply play for a club further down the pecking order. If the Scot was good enough he'd play for a better club. We hardly have a championship full of potential Premiership-winning Scots who aren't being signed by better clubs because of their ethnicity.

Celtic losing players to bayern Munich like Liam Morrison and Barry Hepburn is a different debate for the likes of Liam Henderson,Hickey and Ferguson going to Italy.
Scot Brown taking Dean Campbell on loan is also slightly different.

[Raidernation]

Teams defending for their lives for a point 8 times a season doesn’t really give them the best experience to play in Europe.
But going from the other thread it’s much easier to blame the OF than it is to take a bit of responsibility.

You’re trolling

[Raidernation]

Defeatist nonsense.

Ignorant c**t!

[Raidernation]

I agree with some of that but there is a few points i disagree with, Hartlepool taking 6 or 7 players from Scotland is down to the manager plus taking 16 and 17 year old players before they're fully developed is a pure gamble by clubs.
Any Scots player that leaves say to England or Germany have to be better than the English or German players already at the clubs the same for the foreign guys coming here.

I’d say “ cheaper” not “better” hence much lower risk if they turn out to be shite!
Exams, David Bates

M’lud I test my case

[Ewan8472]

On 10/09/2022 at 10:28, Ya Bezzer! said:

The single biggest reason the Scottish league is completely shite is we don't produce anywhere near enough talent and what talent we do produce is almost instantly snapped up because the low yield, sell on instantly process has been going on for a long, long time. 

Back in the eighties loads of Scottish players went to youth sides in England or were playing in various English leagues right up to the very top level.  It didn't really impact the Scottish leagues because there was still plenty top talent around. 

Now I'll admit that more than likely modern economics would have taken guys like Willie Miller, Maurice Malpas, Paul McStay etc down south but the point is if you produce enough good talent consistently the overall player base doesn't get watered down.

The general standard of the player base in the Scottish Premier League these days is absolute garbage. 

In important positions like striker or goalkeeper almost no young Scottish players get a chance to develop while we import in tripe like Aaron Chapman, Yves Makalamby or Mark Birighitti.

How much foreign dross floats through our league ever season never to be seen again without making any impact whatsoever? 

Sure Jota is a great player, he's earned his spot in our league but what about Jay Emmanuel-Thomas, Corey Panter, Armand Gnanduillet, Justin Amaluzor, Eetu Vertainen, Kristian Dennis, Chris Mueller etc, etc.  Just a small selection of last seasons nobodies we pay for nothing while committing footballing hari-kari. 

It would actually be interesting to go through, say every foreign striker employed in our league over the last 10 years and see how many of them actually scored, say, more than 5 goals or even at all.

This , and we have been through it previously

[PauloPerth]

Rangers and Celtic will each make approximately £23m for simply being in the group stages. They also will make £2.45m per victory and £814,000 per draw.

Hearts will make near £4m for being in the ECL group stages. Add on £422,000 per win and £140,000 per draw.

Any Premiership team supporter would be off their head to want any of them to do well. All you’re doing is hoping for their competitive advantage to increase.

Three further weeks like this one with nil points all round is exactly what’s required thank you very much. 

All three in the bin by 4th November, then we can all celebrate with big fireworks displays all round the country that weekend.