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What is the answer?


jamamafegan
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6 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

154 players have started a match in the Scottish Premiership so far this season - 57 Scots and 97 non Scots.

That's a disgrace.

 

Last weekend there were only two matches across the top two divisions of English football that didn't feature a Scottish player. There are plenty scattered about in the league below that as well - I didn't check how many.

The best young players are being snapped up by English clubs at 16 and 17 before they've even had a chance to feature in our game. Our young Scotland U17 captain left for Newcastle this summer, we had Liam Smith head off to Man City a couple of years back, and even the best teenagers from Celtic and Rangers have been lured to bigger clubs down south. Steven Naismith played over 100 times for Killie after making his debut at 17 - if we had someone of his ability now we'd be lucky if we even saw him play a single game. Even if they do break through to the first team, they're often gone within a year like Calvin Ramsay.

The same goes for your sort of run of the mill Scottish Premiership players too. Shaun Rooney turned down Killie and probably other Scottish clubs to go to Fleetwood, Callum Hendry ended up at Salford when there would have been offers on the table from here, and that will have been replicated across Scottish football this summer.

When you lose so many players on such a regular basis it's inevitable that you're going to have to bring in foreign guys to plug the gaps. There simply aren't enough remaining Scottish players capable of playing at this level - where do you think these guys are going to suddenly appear from?

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United being bodied of AZ albeit a poor result, isnt unexpected given the budgets 

However i wonder how much of the issues come from the fact that most Scottish teams are drilled first in the idea of not conceding instead of thinking "lets fucking score first" so when they do go behind they have absolutely no idea how to try comeback

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2 hours ago, FredFlintsone said:

Romania don't belong on that list. They have a European cup winner. Although having said that Celtic got knocked out in the Champions League qualifiers by Cluj, a team with a home support of 5,000, a few years back. Agree with the rest though. Killie getting knocked out by the Nomads and Motherwell losing home and away to Sligo beggars belief to be honest. Celtic have massively underperformed the last 15 years given the size of their club. Failing to win a single knockout tie is laughable and demolitions to Paris St Germain just makes the Scottish league look so poor.. I really fear for Hearts and Celtic in Europe this season. 

Celtic in the last 15 years have also beaten Peps Barca and drew with his city side, beaten AC Milan and Lazio so for every yin there is a yang

However looking at Celtic is ignoring the question actually being asked by the OP

3 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:
7 hours ago, MrIrvinePollock said:
Maybe stop ploughing loads of cash on poor foreign players ....and use that money to produce and employ full time youth coaches who can work on producing quality Scottish talent?

And then continue to allow the OF to hoover up said talent and hide them away given them no fucking chance of progressing...

What young talent? Most of the young talent are ignoring Celtic and Rangers to go abroad or down south. Just look at Ben Doak for example or even Aaron Hickey, even Lewis Ferguson has decided to go abroad instead of following the path most expected.

 

Edited by Jinky67
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27 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Celtic in the last 15 years have also beaten Peps Barca and drew with his city side, beaten AC Milan and Lazio so for every yin there is a yang

However looking at Celtic is ignoring the question actually being asked by the OP

What young talent? Most of the young talent are ignoring Celtic and Rangers to go abroad or down south. Just look at Ben Doak for example or even Aaron Hickey, even Lewis Ferguson has decided to go abroad instead of following the path most expected.

 

So there's no need for your B teams in the Lowland League, then.

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7 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

So there's no need for your B teams in the Lowland League, then.

The voting clubs seem to think differently. 

Who knows maybe the opportunity afforded to them in the lowland league may see more move into first team football in the future. I’d love to see more progress and stay 

 

Edited by Jinky67
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6 hours ago, TheScarf said:

This thread is about Scottish clubs being knocked out by shitter teams.  Can you point out where Celtic v Lincoln Red Imps falls into that category?  Also, what does who I support have anything to do with it?

Oh... 🤔  it's actually fine as long as you don't get knocked by a shitty team... Got Ye now mate sorry 👍 

So If a Scottish team plays Tre Foiri of San Marino and they win in a Penalty shootout that's OK as long they win, 

 

Think I've just found Scotland's Head of Development it's worse than I thought  🙈

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8 minutes ago, Portmahomack Saint said:

Oh... 🤔  it's actually fine as long as you don't get knocked by a shitty team... Got Ye now mate sorry 👍 

So If a Scottish team plays Tre Foiri of San Marino and they win in a Penalty shootout that's OK as long they win, 

 

Think I've just found Scotland's Head of Development it's worse than I thought  🙈

Sorry, do you have to go through against a team from San Marino 8-0 on aggregate or it doesn’t count or something? 
 

Does Celtic’s 3-1 win against Red Imps not count because they only won by 2 goals?

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11 minutes ago, Portmahomack Saint said:

Oh... 🤔  it's actually fine as long as you don't get knocked by a shitty team... Got Ye now mate sorry 👍 

So If a Scottish team plays Tre Foiri of San Marino and they win in a Penalty shootout that's OK as long they win, 

 

Think I've just found Scotland's Head of Development it's worse than I thought  🙈

You can stop digging now mate 

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47 minutes ago, Portmahomack Saint said:

Oh... 🤔  it's actually fine as long as you don't get knocked by a shitty team... Got Ye now mate sorry 👍 

So If a Scottish team plays Tre Foiri of San Marino and they win in a Penalty shootout that's OK as long they win, 

 

Think I've just found Scotland's Head of Development it's worse than I thought  🙈

Except this wasn’t a penalty shoot out. It was as comfortable a 2nd leg of football as i’ve ever seen at Celtic Park. The game and also the tie was over after 30 mins and became no more than a training match.

 

Edited by Jinky67
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14 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

 

AZ Alkmaar 7 Dundee United 0

 

Motherwell knocked out by Sligo. Knocked out by Stjarnan in 2014.

 

Kilmarnock knocked out by Connah’s Quay Nomads

 

Hibernian 0 Malmo 7

 

Hearts 1 Birkirkara 2 - knocked out.

 

St Johnstone knocked out by Minsk, Trnava, Alashkert and Trakai.

 

Aberdeen knocked out by Sigma Olomouc, Kairat, Apollon Limassol and Qarabag to name a few.

 

Inverness knocked out by Astra.

 

There’s a few of the many miserable results endured by Scottish clubs in European competition over the past decade or so. It’s grim reading. So many humiliating performances by Scottish teams, being knocked out by teams from - quite frankly - jobber footballing associations. Then there’s the odd results by Hibs and Dundee United who were turned over with ease.

 

On some occasions Scottish teams put in good performances and pull off excellent results. St Johnstone knocking out Rosenborg and Luzern. Hearts drawing with Liverpool. Dundee United beating AZ Alkmaar last week! Yet for some reason we are unable progress. It just seems like we lack bottle. Sometimes it’s fair to say the teams we are up against have significantly budgets. Aberdeen for example going out to teams like Real Sociedad, Sporting Lisbon and Burnley in recent years. I don’t think it’s a good enough excuse though, it doesn’t make sense to me how teams can put in a decent first leg performance and then just fold like a deck chair in the second. For me, it comes down to having a weak mentality. I fully expect Hearts to be beaten by Zurich in their upcoming game and it won’t surprise me if they get bodied in their Conference League group either.

 

How do we fix this mess?

 

 

 

I said this on another thread but people don't want to hear it.

The problems are obvious and simple but people want to focus on blaming the OF and money.

We have professional players in this country who:-

1) Can't trap a football.

2) Can't pass a football.

3) Don't train hard enough.

4) Aren't fit enough.

5) Ball watch constantly.

6) Have absolutely no footballing intelligence whatsoever on or off the ball.

7) Don't know how to mark opponents.

8 ) Don't believe they can win the league before a ball is even kicked in anger.

9) Lack the hunger and drive to succeed.

These problems are  more fundamental than just being about players wages.

It's mentality, attitude, resilience, skill, effort and belief. We sorely lack in all of those areas.

I said it before but people won't accept this until we are regularly being humped by teams from the Faroes. Maybe, just maybe at that point, someone will wake up and try to fix things.

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If you don't think it is mostly to do with a huge disparity in money, you're simply wrong. The best players either go to the OF or England and most Scottish teams barely see them play. Then you're left with the dross.

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9 hours ago, Mr. Brightside said:

If you don't think it is mostly to do with a huge disparity in money, you're simply wrong. The best players either go to the OF or England and most Scottish teams barely see them play. Then you're left with the dross.

Defeatist nonsense.

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The standard of our teams outside the top two just isn’t very good, as results show.
Our other teams consistently struggle against Welsh, Northern Irish, Irish, Maltese, Icelandic etc teams despite having a much bigger budget than them, so it’s not purely financial.
It’s not really a new phenomenon either. I remember Aberdeen being knocked out by Bohemians in 2000 and there being some epic hand wringing after that.
These kind of results happen every single year and every year people act surprised and outraged for a few weeks and threads like this get started. Then they move on, seem to forget about it, and the pattern is repeated the following summer. I’m just surprised at there’s still surprise when it happens. I guarantee that in summer 2023 some Scottish team will get papped out in July by some European no marks and we will go through all this again.

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There is something in the mentality side I think. Nothing to do with effort etc, but so many of our managers absolutely shite it away from home, including in Europe. The National Team have often been guilty of this too.

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1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

There is something in the mentality side I think. Nothing to do with effort etc, but so many of our managers absolutely shite it away from home, including in Europe. The National Team have often been guilty of this too.

The mentality to see out a match or to win a match comes down to talent, fitness and tactical awareness. If you lack any one of these you get found out when the pressure is on. We can all look at our own teams and see players who are extremely fit or talented or tactically aware but not many if any who combine all three. I think this a failing in coaching. Managers very rarely last more than a season so why should they worry about what's happening in the youth teams. Spend that budget on a couple of new players I'll look good and won't be here in 3 years anyway. 

17 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

 

What young talent? Most of the young talent are ignoring Celtic and Rangers to go abroad or down south. Just look at Ben Doak for example or even Aaron Hickey, even Lewis Ferguson has decided to go abroad instead of following the path most expected.

 

I don't see that as a problem. Players will find their level in football. It young footballers are ambitious and want to improve their standing they will work at what they need to get there benefitting their present club. The problem with a lot of players in Scottish football just now is they didn't make it at their OF club of choice, but have enough talent to earn a living bouncing down the leagues like the ball on The Wall without over stretching themselves. Usually accompanied by a manager who has liking for them.

Maybe the SFA and SPFL should insist a larger percentage of prize and TV money goes to youth coaching developmen.t I don't Know. I'll have another think next year. 

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15 hours ago, Clown Job said:
15 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

Except this wasn’t a penalty shoot out. It was as comfortable a 2nd leg of football as i’ve ever seen at Celtic Park. The game and also the tie was over after 30 mins and became no more than a training match.

 

You can stop digging now mate 

Think I might have took a wrong turn somewhere and ended up in the funny farm [thescarf] 

Wasn't having a go at your team pal was just pointing out it can't all just be down to finance when a club like Celtic lose a first leg Champions league qualifier to Red Imps or lose 5-0 to a team like Artmedia who's home stadium holds 1600...  even taking into account they play in the famous black and white stripes first made famous by Saint Mirren Football Club 

Considering football is the number 1 sport in Scotland by a long long long way unlike other countries in Europe we are overall pretty shit at it..  

Rangers had success last season but there were only 2 outfield Scottish players that started the game against Frankfurt.. When Celtic lost 1-0 the the Imps 7 Scottish players took part in that match 

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19 hours ago, craigkillie said:

 

Last weekend there were only two matches across the top two divisions of English football that didn't feature a Scottish player. There are plenty scattered about in the league below that as well - I didn't check how many.

The best young players are being snapped up by English clubs at 16 and 17 before they've even had a chance to feature in our game. Our young Scotland U17 captain left for Newcastle this summer, we had Liam Smith head off to Man City a couple of years back, and even the best teenagers from Celtic and Rangers have been lured to bigger clubs down south. Steven Naismith played over 100 times for Killie after making his debut at 17 - if we had someone of his ability now we'd be lucky if we even saw him play a single game. Even if they do break through to the first team, they're often gone within a year like Calvin Ramsay.

The same goes for your sort of run of the mill Scottish Premiership players too. Shaun Rooney turned down Killie and probably other Scottish clubs to go to Fleetwood, Callum Hendry ended up at Salford when there would have been offers on the table from here, and that will have been replicated across Scottish football this summer.

When you lose so many players on such a regular basis it's inevitable that you're going to have to bring in foreign guys to plug the gaps. There simply aren't enough remaining Scottish players capable of playing at this level - where do you think these guys are going to suddenly appear from?

^^^ This.

Been saying the same thing on here. This season, St Mirren’s talented young player Dylan Reid had talks with Celtic. I’m a St Mirren season ticket holder and go to home league games. I don’t think I’ve even seen Dylan Reid play two or three games, yet he was nearly off - and he will be off. There’s absolutely nothing we can do. The game is a bogey for diddy clubs up here to even assemble, much less keep, a good team. A team who have experience playing alongside each other for a decent time, allowing them maybe to not be gubbed 7-0.

Also, in regard to us being a tinpot ‘jobber’ league. Of course we are. A country that allows a club to refuse to wear a league-wide sponsor logo? Fcuking third world tinpot league that bends over and takes it up the arse for two clubs with a rivalry based on religious bigotry / intolerance?

Tinpot. As. Fcuk.

Edited by pozbaird
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3 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

There is something in the mentality side I think. Nothing to do with effort etc, but so many of our managers absolutely shite it away from home, including in Europe. The National Team have often been guilty of this too.

So now it's the managers who are to blame for all of this is it?

Is there anyone you haven't blamed yet? Apart from the players that is? Fucks sake. 😂

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