D*ck waving to despair - Whose fans' hopes will crash and burn?

[coprolite]

Aberdeen's signings look to be made at least as much with a view to resale as to contributing on the pitch in the short term.  I'd expect us to not perform as well as fees alone might suggest. I'd back us for top six, but no confidence of better than fifth. 

Hibs have signed some geriatrics and some unknown quantities and are a bit of a random factor. That new manager just has the air of an over-promoted chancer though so i'd guess they'll have an entertainingly erratic and shit season. 

Hearts have replaced a loan striker that looked above the normal standard for the division with a striker who has demonstrated that he can score for fun in the Scottish championship but not the premier. They won't run away with third this year but will probably still end up there. 

Jack Ross will ensure utd shitfest their way into the top 5.

I reckon it will be at least February before it becomes clear quite how wrong this all is. 

[the jambo-rocker]

13 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

I think Hearts over performed last season too.

Definitely made some good signings but Souttar leaving will be a big blow 

I wouldn't even say that finishing 28 points behind 2nd was par for the course. Everyone else below was woeful. It was actually impressive that everyone was so shite.

Anyway the idea of a Non-OF club performing in Europe and still challenging for third is full f**k-on anathema to Scottish football, so it will probably be us.

Edited August 4, 2022 by the jambo-rocker

[VincentGuerin]

10 minutes ago, the jambo-rocker said:

I wouldn't even say that finishing 28 points behind 2nd was par for the course. Everyone else below was woeful. It was actually impressive that everyone was so shite.

Anyway the idea of a Non-OF club performing in Europe and still challenging for third is full f**k-on anathema to Scottish football, so it will probably be us.

It was very funny leaving our games and realising that somehow no other teams in the Premiership ever seemed to have won, apart from the OF.

I think the last time anyone below us in the league won a game was about 1994.

[DukDukGoose]

13 minutes ago, Darren said:

In what sense did Hearts overperform? Everyone else was total shit, Hearts weren't. Finished in exactly the right position.

Awful sensitive Darren.

If you looked at the Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs squads from last season then I don't think anyone could realistically say any was miles better than the other two. It's not Hearts fault that the other two completely fucked their seasons though.

12 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I still haven't made up my mind on this. Hearts were never spectacular last season, but just solidly better than most teams we played. I thought that from the first round of fixtures, even when we drew at home to Hibs and Aberdeen, I thought we looked a better side than both. Ultimately that proved to be the case.

It's also worth pointing out that Hearts had a lot of fitness issues last season with the likes of Souttar, Halkett, Smith, Boyce, Baningime, Devlin etc etc and still coasted it. - I think people have almost forgotten that in Baningime (sp) we have been missing one of our best players for months, and won't have him back till the new year.

We've got a good keeper, which some fans seem to see as something we should apologise for. We certainly needed to add a finisher, as we were very wasteful in a lot of games, especially at home. Shankland may or may not solve that issue, need to wait and see.

Souttar is a big player to have to replace, but we did do without him in 11 league games last year. We need to wait and see what the situation with Kingsley is, but losing him to a long injury would be a big blow.

I think in a straight league-only season I'd have us down with a very good chance of finishing third again. But I do think a lot of people (our own fans included) are massively over-looking the impact of the congestion we're about to run into.

There wasn't much between three taking in to account the games against each other. Draw a fair result for the Aberdeen game at Tynecastle. We should have battered you at Pittodrie but you left with a 1 goal defeat and probably could have put 5 past us in the third game.

Hearts were ridiculously consistent against the rest of the teams (OF aside). Aberdeen would dominate a game for 80 mins and end up with a 1-0 defeat due to a defensive lapse. Hearts were defensively sound enough that 1-0 would have been enough most weeks.

There's not many players I'd take from your team to replace players in ours and I know that will be the same for yourself and Hibs fans.

6 minutes ago, the jambo-rocker said:

I wouldn't even say that finishing 28 points behind 2nd was par for the course. Everyone else below was woeful. It was actually impressive that everyone was so shite.

Anyway the idea of a Non-OF club performing in Europe and still challenging for third is full f**k-on anathema to Scottish football, so it will probably be us.

I said it at the time, but it was crazy that we were still in without a shout of top 6 with 5 minutes to go in the final game pre-split. A close league in every position below Hearts that had no reason to be.

[VincentGuerin]

1 minute ago, Merkland Red said:

There wasn't much between three taking in to account the games against each other. Draw a fair result for the Aberdeen game at Tynecastle. We should have battered you at Pittodrie but you left with a 1 goal defeat and probably could have put 5 past us in the third game.

Hearts were ridiculously consistent against the rest of the teams (OF aside). Aberdeen would dominate a game for 80 mins and end up with a 1-0 defeat due to a defensive lapse. Hearts were defensively sound enough that 1-0 would have been enough most weeks.

We all look at things through the prism of our own teams, but I get the feeling there's a willingness of supporters of other clubs to 'Ah but' Hearts' performance last season.

It doesn't really matter what happened over the three games with Aberdeen in the scheme of things. By the split at 33 games Hearts were 21 points ahead of Aberdeen, and 16 points clear of 4th, and this does not happen by accident.

I think Hearts suffer for their style of play when it comes to perceptions. Neilson likes control and we're not always the most gung-ho. Although I would say I think we're becoming better to watch and I can see what he wants to do with the team.

We also suffer from the Gordon effect. He's a wonderful goalkeeper, but I think it suits a lot of people's agenda to exaggerate his displays sometimes. A good example was our win at Tannadice last season when we were comfortably the better side and won 2-0. Gordon had a couple of good saves, but in truth, nothing that wouldn't have provoked a 'keeper could have done better' if it had gone in. Yet we had a BBC match report that read like he'd single-handedly won the game for Hearts and things like that become the narrative.

So, I suppose overall I'd disagree that Hearts over-performed last season. They were just a good, solid team that had a good season. I think we'll see development in the quality of the team this season, but as mentioned above, I think that won't show in results before new year.

[Darren]

10 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Awful sensitive Darren.

If you looked at the Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs squads from last season then I don't think anyone could realistically say any was miles better than the other two. It's not Hearts fault that the other two completely fucked their seasons though.

Not at all. Aberdeen and Hibs were absolutely awful last season, Hearts weren't.

You don't finish miles behind the top two but miles clear of fourth by "overperforming".

It's just a poor argument on your part. Your perception of how good (or not) the squads were at the start of last season means nothing.

[DukDukGoose]

3 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

We all look at things through the prism of our own teams, but I get the feeling there's a willingness of supporters of other clubs to 'Ah but' Hearts' performance last season.

It doesn't really matter what happened over the three games with Aberdeen in the scheme of things. By the split at 33 games Hearts were 21 points ahead of Aberdeen, and 16 points clear of 4th, and this does not happen by accident.

I think Hearts suffer for their style of play when it comes to perceptions. Neilson likes control and we're not always the most gung-ho. Although I would say I think we're becoming better to watch and I can see what he wants to do with the team.

We also suffer from the Gordon effect. He's a wonderful goalkeeper, but I think it suits a lot of people's agenda to exaggerate his displays sometimes. A good example was our win at Tannadice last season when we were comfortably the better side and won 2-0. Gordon had a couple of good saves, but in truth, nothing that wouldn't have provoked a 'keeper could have done better' if it had gone in. Yet we had a BBC match report that read like he'd single-handedly won the game for Hearts and things like that become the narrative.

So, I suppose overall I'd disagree that Hearts over-performed last season. They were just a good, solid team that had a good season. I think we'll see development in the quality of the team this season, but as mentioned above, I think that won't show in results before new year.

Hearts deserved to go down in 19/20 then.

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Hearts deserved to go down in 19/20 then.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Is anyone saying Hearts were a good team in 19/20?

[craigkillie]

18 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Awful sensitive Darren.

If you looked at the Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs squads from last season then I don't think anyone could realistically say any was miles better than the other two. It's not Hearts fault that the other two completely fucked their seasons though.

The Aberdeen and Hibs squads last season looked terrible on paper and were equally terrible on the park. That's why both clubs have had to go out and spend an absolute fortune on turning them over this summer. The Dons seem to have done a better job than Hibs on account of not having someone on work experience in charge of their transfer business.

[VincentGuerin]

7 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Hearts deserved to go down in 19/20 then.

I suppose, actually there is a comparison with your point here.

You claim there's not much difference betwen the sides last season based on three games. But, as I mentioned, over the initial part of the season (before being separated by the split) Hearts were 21 points better.

It's a bit like me trying to claim the 19/20 Hearts team weren't that bad because they beat Rangers twice, Hibs twice, and put Aberdeen out the League Cup. It's what you do over the season that counts. I'm surprised anyone would suggest otherwise.

Edited August 4, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[Darren]

I'll put on record that I predict Hibs will be absolutely shite this season. I think people are seriously underestimating how poor they are. 

[DukDukGoose]

5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The Aberdeen and Hibs squads last season looked terrible on paper and were equally terrible on the park. That's why both clubs have had to go out and spend an absolute fortune on turning them over this summer. The Dons seem to have done a better job than Hibs on account of not having someone on work experience in charge of their transfer business.

Will have to agree to disagree Craig.

The Aberdeen squad looked good on paper. The issue was that many of them couldn't play the way the manager wanted. We also struggled with injury. We struggled to break teams down and ended up leaving too many gaps at the back.

[VincentGuerin]

8 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

 We struggled to break teams down and ended up leaving too many gaps at the back.

So, they were shite?

[DukDukGoose]

22 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

So, they were shite?

The proof was in the pudding.

I'd imagine most of the managers of the teams above us would have been delighted to have the squad we did though.

[Kyle Reese]

Not HMFC, anyway. We will be dick-slapping the Premiership diddies like cock of the north.

[Lyle Lanley]

Think we will be bottom six once again. 

 

[Swello]

I mentioned it in passing in the 'Well thread - but it feels like the biggest ever gap in spending between the top 4 non-OF budgets (Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, Utd) and the others - so I think there is at least a decent possibility this year of the unicorn-rare OF, Edinburgh Clubs, New Firm Top 6. Conversely, the failure of that to happen probably means a spectacular c**t of it has been made somewhere - cracked crest level stuff.

I think there will be bugger all between the bottom few sides - no-one cast adrift -no obvious relegation fodder.

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, Swello said:

 - cracked crest level stuff.

 

Let’s hope that’s not United then after they just refurbished their crest so magnificently. 

[pozbaird]

Absolutely zero of interest at the top. Will be Celtic - The Rangers, or The Rangers - Celtic. Who. Gives. A. Fcuk.

Who will finish rock bottom is anyone’s guess. Someone will, but it could (in my opinion naturally) be St Mirren, St Johnstone, Killie, Livvy, Ross C, or Motherwell. Equally though, one or more of those six clubs could have an excellent season and be nowhere near the absolute bottom. That’s where the interest lies for me. A middle pack of Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Hearts & Hibs will no doubt fight out the European spots and be comfortably ‘Top 6’, no trouser troubling adventures down the bottom six for any of them.

[Swello]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Let’s hope that’s not United then after they just refurbished their crest so magnificently. 

The crack will look good through the improved negative space