36 years, how much longer?

[Dons_1988]

7 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It really is utterly absurd that such injustice is tolerated in our game.

It's a miracle the rest of us bother with it.  Perhaps we shouldn't.

I’ve honestly never been so close to not bothering. 

I’ll probably not follow through on that threat as watching the dons is such a big part of my life but i feel so apathetic to it all at the minute. 

[GTG_03]

23 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I’ve honestly never been so close to not bothering. 

I’ll probably not follow through on that threat as watching the dons is such a big part of my life but i feel so apathetic to it all at the minute. 

In the 2000s I was a season ticket holder and went to plenty away games aswell. Nowadays, I sometimes forget to check the scores on a Saturday. 

There's no prospect of a club outwith the big two winning the league without real change which will never happen. 

All you've got is the potential for an occasional cup win or run in one of the lower European cups. 

No wonder apathy is setting in.

[kingjoey]

8 hours ago, big al said:

Been 36 years, probably forever. Certainly even longer with tonight’s result. Another step up in divide of finances between the 2 bigots and the rest. 

Disastrous result for Scottish football last night. 

[kennie makevin]

57 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Disastrous result for Scottish football last night. 

Exactly.....yet our 'national' broadcaster who should care about the whole of the Scottish game will hype it as being great, wonderful,. magical, stupendous for Scottish football.  If only someone, anyone would appear on sportsound and ask why......go on, tell us, why is the Old Firm getting into the CL wonderful for the rest of the clubs......tell us, I dare you.

[Dons_1988]

1 hour ago, GTG_03 said:

In the 2000s I was a season ticket holder and went to plenty away games aswell. Nowadays, I sometimes forget to check the scores on a Saturday. 

There's no prospect of a club outwith the big two winning the league without real change which will never happen. 

All you've got is the potential for an occasional cup win or run in one of the lower European cups. 

No wonder apathy is setting in.

The gaps always been there I suppose, but I’ve always had an optimist that one day it might change, or that stars could align for someone to win a title etc. 

But it now seems obvious it’s not going to happen. It won’t change. From what I see, nobody in charge, nobody in the media, even at the clubs suffering at the hands of it even seem to think it’s a problem. 

“that’s just the way it is in Scottish football” 

Well then maybe it can f**k off. 

[Stag Nation]

On 23/08/2022 at 09:16, Richie said:

Liverpool, by a distance one of the 2 biggest clubs in the country, were also-rans in the League for about 30 years.

Not any longer. Both Manc club now earn more.

[Lola montez]

In Portugal the league has been won by either Porto, Sporting or Benfica every year since 1944-45 except 2000 when Boavista won it, in the Eredivisie the league has been won by Ajax, Feyenoord or PSV since 1964 except for AZ in 1981 and 2009 and Twente the year after. Scotland is a smaller country than either Portugal or the Netherlands but we are nowhere near the monopoly these other clubs have enjoyed, I can only wish that with both cheeks focusing on CL they may have some bumps in the league which Aberdeen, Hibs or someone like St Mirren or Motherwell can capitalise on and make a go at it. 

[Richey Edwards]

It took Gretna much less time to enter the Champions League group stage.

Poor show.

[Squalor Vic]

2 hours ago, kennie makevin said:

Exactly.....yet our 'national' broadcaster who should care about the whole of the Scottish game will hype it as being great, wonderful,. magical, stupendous for Scottish football.  If only someone, anyone would appear on sportsound and ask why......go on, tell us, why is the Old Firm getting into the CL wonderful for the rest of the clubs......tell us, I dare you.

Cos them being in it means us diddys get some extra crumbs. Then they can buy any decent players we have for peanuts, further weakening us diddys, so all those millions eventually filter through. And the coefficient too, remember that. Means we can get papped out a euro tournament a round later!

Look at all these positives!

[ftk]

The clubs outside the old firm need to get together and come up with a plan to change things.

[BFTD]

4 minutes ago, ftk said:

The clubs outside the old firm need to get together and come up with a plan to change things.

They don't see a problem. The boards of most clubs in the SPFL are primarily concerned with staying afloat, and will genuinely see the extra Celtgers Euro crumbs as a Very Good Thing for Scottish football, as it will help with that primary concern. Aberdeen even refused to vote for change in case it damaged the duopoly and their future moneymaking potential (I assume; presumably they weren't stupid enough to believe that they could actually end up being the New Old Firm with Celtic).

[EpicMike]

6 hours ago, BFTD said:

They don't see a problem. The boards of most clubs in the SPFL are primarily concerned with staying afloat, and will genuinely see the extra Celtgers Euro crumbs as a Very Good Thing for Scottish football, as it will help with that primary concern. Aberdeen even refused to vote for change in case it damaged the duopoly and their future moneymaking potential (I assume; presumably they weren't stupid enough to believe that they could actually end up being the New Old Firm with Celtic).

Aberdeen's owners were absolutely stupid enough to believe they could establish themselves as the second force in Scottish football.

[BFTD]

2 minutes ago, EpicMike said:

Aberdeen's owners were absolutely stupid enough to believe they could establish themselves as the second force in Scottish football.

That's incredibly depressing.

Thinking about it, if Alloa had somehow ended up with a massive windfall and were in the SPL in 2012, I could easily imagine Mike Mulraney deciding that the two-club veto was worth keeping.

[HailHailHayley]

All you need are the right players, the right manager & the right set of circumstances. Lille won the French League even though PSG were there. Leicester won the English League even though there was the 'big six'. 

This kind of whining irritates me, there's no divine right to dominate a league. Celtic have done it over a period of time by getting things right. Instead of complaining, concentrate on yourselves getting things right so one day you might challenge. That's what Lille did. That's what Leicester did.

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, ftk said:

The clubs outside the old firm need to get together and come up with a plan to change things.

I've got this.

All the non-OF clubs get together and demand a massively different distribution model that presents a much, much more level playing field for clubs.  

It could involve gate sharing, merchandising being pooled, a requirement for a large chunk of European income to be shared out etc.    There would be a need for this model to involve lower league clubs also, so that no cliff face exists.

When these demands are rejected by the clubs and spluttered about in the media, the top flight diddies agree ahead of the next full season, that they will field youth sides against the OF, ensuring that they get hammered each and every time.  For home matches against the OF, they should urge their own fans to boycott the games, opening the grounds entirely to OF fans if they still want to come.  It'll mean that the OF sides take maximum points from everyone else, and the title will rest solely on the 4 OF games.  The spectacle for Sky will be shit and thoroughly devalued.

Meanwhile, the teams will all compete as usual against each other, meaning the 3rd placed team will be regarded as Champions by actual fans everywhere.  A trophy could even be presented. Relegation will still be decided in the traditional way, but as everyone has lost to the OF every time, the outcome will again be entirely reliant on non-OF fixtures.

The actual end of season table would not be that vastly different from what we get each year anyway.  The difference would be that the others would have stopped pretending that they all take part in a valid competition to win the league.

Think how this would capture the imagination.  Fans would for the first time be involved in what would be considered the actual title race.  This would be an international, sensational media story of the ancient footballing nation that stood up to the injustices of the modern game. 

The Latest OF league win would be rendered hollower than ever, derived as it would be from just 4 matches against 1 opponent.  Meanwhile, we'd all hail our new real champions.

No way would those in our game have the courage to do any of this of course, but it's a nice dream.  

We need the behaviour of our clubs to reflect that we don't need the OF, but they do need us.

[Squonk]

12 minutes ago, HailHailHayley said:

All you need are the right players, the right manager & the right set of circumstances. Celtic have done it over a period of time by getting things right. Instead of complaining, concentrate on yourselves getting things right so one day you might challenge..

Sorry, but that's the most condescending post I've read since someone suggested the smaller clubs just need to try harder. If getting the right players, manager and circumstances are all that's required, why haven't Celtic won a European trophy in the past 55 years?

[Bad Wolf]

12 minutes ago, Squonk said:

Sorry, but that's the most condescending post I've read since someone suggested the smaller clubs just need to try harder. If getting the right players, manager and circumstances are all that's required, why haven't Celtic won a European trophy in the past 55 years?

Masonic conspiracy. Duh!

[ermagersh]

Let's do a little exercise with Celtic, Aberdeen, and Motherwell.

From the sources below it can be reasoned that Celtic's wage bill is usually around 20 million, Aberdeen's is close to 3, and Motherwell around 1 million. I wanted to see what that would look like played out in the EFL, which could provide a nice reference point.

If we cross multiply and divide we find that similar wage bills are Manchester City playing the part of Celtic (wage bill is 220 million), I have cast QPR in the role of Aberdeen (36 million), and finally Ipswich Town as Motherwell (15 million).

This means that OF fans are celebrating the pumping of a perennial Championship side and a League One "fallen giant". Pretty embarrassing I'd say.

 

Figures from https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-every-every-pl-and-champ-clubs-wages-compare-to-their-league-finish/ 

https://www.totalsportal.com/money/premier-league-wage-bill/

https://www.888sport.com/blog/football/league-one-salary

https://footballleaguefc.com/category/player-wages/spfl-player-wages/

[Dons_1988]

1 hour ago, HailHailHayley said:

All you need are the right players, the right manager & the right set of circumstances. Lille won the French League even though PSG were there. Leicester won the English League even though there was the 'big six'. 

This kind of whining irritates me, there's no divine right to dominate a league. Celtic have done it over a period of time by getting things right. Instead of complaining, concentrate on yourselves getting things right so one day you might challenge. That's what Lille did. That's what Leicester did.

 

@wastecoatwilly did you put Hayley up to this? 

[HailHailHayley]

3 hours ago, Squonk said:

Sorry, but that's the most condescending post I've read since someone suggested the smaller clubs just need to try harder. If getting the right players, manager and circumstances are all that's required, why haven't Celtic won a European trophy in the past 55 years?

And this is the problem with Scottish football, the moment anyone suggests clubs should be doing better & that maybe they should be looking at themselves & what they're doing wrong compared to other similar sized clubs/fanbases in Europe they get all defensive. So aye just keep blaming Celtic for all your problems, but that's why you don't get anywhere. 

Instead of celebrating that the level at the top of Scottish club football is getting higher & trying to follow suit, you'd rather it was a race to the bottom & that we were all shite.

And in answer to your last point, we don't play in La Liga, we don't play in the Premier League, we don't play in Serie A. Because of that it's not a level playing field when we compete in Europe - another reason why I wish the standard would improve in our league.