craigkillie Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 18 minutes ago, ScoRoss said: But why make it that exactly half get a home draw and half get an away game. Why not randomise that aspect as well? I think that would be the ideal approach, I assume it's because it starts to make the draw more logistically complicated since you'd need a third bowl to randomise that. Nonetheless, every single individual club has the same chance of a home and away draw under the current system as they would under a randomised draw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikethedee Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I presume whoever it was that failed to ensure one of the Bigot Brothers got Annan in this draw has been fired by the SPFL?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarapoa Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Given our lack of European football for the first time in nine years, I was bemoaning the lack of exotic summer trips to faraway destinations. However, now we have to visit some place called Annan, and it looks quite near Burnley which was as far as we got four years back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Spikethedee said: I presume whoever it was that failed to ensure one of the Bigot Brothers got Annan at home in this draw has been fired by the SPFL?? FTFY. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 10 hours ago, craigkillie said: I think that would be the ideal approach, I assume it's because it starts to make the draw more logistically complicated since you'd need a third bowl to randomise that. Nonetheless, every single individual club has the same chance of a home and away draw under the current system as they would under a randomised draw. They do at the start of the draw. They don't as it progresses. After the first name is out the other 7 seeds only have a 3 in 7 chance of a home draw. If it was truly randomised, they'd still have a 50/50 shot. Same theory will apply to every second tie with differing levels of probability (2 in 5, 1 in 3 and then zero). And the same also applies to the non seed except their chance increases briefly rather than decreasing every second tie. I'm sure you're right and it's to ease complication. I'm not convinced it's particularly fair though. That said lots of things about this competition aren't fair, that's nowhere near the worst of it. Qualification is based on a league format where you don't play the same teams home and away, there's a 'best runners up' route which can be enormously corrupted by the relative standard of groups (our group last season had 5 full time sides in it for instance), one team in each group has to finish its games a fixture round early and can't react to qualification requirements on the last day and, as we saw yesterday, there's a live tv game played after everything else is finished that allows a "know what you need to do" approach for somebody potentially. Up to this year the groups were also regionalised too which generally led to stronger groups in the South than the North, although that's now been done away with. It is what it is. A sponsored competition arranged to suit broadcasters. The prize money is excellent and the clubs, not withstanding Lee Johnson bumping his gums about it (he can feck off back down South if he doesn't like it), prefer it to meaningless friendlies. As do fans I think. I'm pretty happy with it overall. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 About a 'good' enough tie as we would get if we're getting a Scottish Barclays team away from home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: They do at the start of the draw. They don't as it progresses. After the first name is out the other 7 seeds only have a 3 in 7 chance of a home draw. If it was truly randomised, they'd still have a 50/50 shot. Same theory will apply to every second tie with differing levels of probability (2 in 5, 1 in 3 and then zero). And the same also applies to the non seed except their chance increases briefly rather than decreasing every second tie. This is a philosophical discussion, but because the order in which clubs are drawn is also random, the probability of something happening as the draw progresses is not really that important. It's a bit like saying that at the start of the draw Killie had a 1 in 8 chance of playing Hearts, but by the time we got to the point where it was drawn, that had decreased to 1 in 2. That doesn't make our choice of opponents any less random. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, TheScarf said: About a 'good' enough tie as we would get if we're getting a Scottish Barclays team away from home. For some reason I seem to have loads of memories of absolutely brilliant goals for us at Fir Park. Off the top of my head grat goals we've scored there - Liam Polworth, low raking shot in 2016 - Iain Vigurs, scoring a volley from a corner in 2015 - Gregory Tade, pinging one in from 25 yards in 2011 - Barry Wilson, scoring from 30 yards in 2004 cup tie. We don't have a particularly good record there but we score good goals when we do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, ICTChris said: For some reason I seem to have loads of memories of absolutely brilliant goals for us at Fir Park. Off the top of my head grat goals we've scored there - Liam Polworth, low raking shot in 2016 - Iain Vigurs, scoring a volley from a corner in 2015 - Gregory Tade, pinging one in from 25 yards in 2011 - Barry Wilson, scoring from 30 yards in 2004 cup tie. We don't have a particularly good record there but we score good goals when we do. Jordan Roberts in 2016 too of course. I've only been to Fir Park twice, the 2004 cup tie so saw Wilson'a goal live, and in 2007 when we beat Gretna 4-0. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Looking forward to putting the lichties back in their wee diddy box after two seasons of being faaar too big for their boots. 4-0 to the Wraggs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I don’t think any cup draw is completely random. In order to achieve that, you’d need to use the same system that they use for national lottery draws. Tipping the numbers into a basin (or whatever) won’t always produce completely random selections. If, for example, the numbers are all set out in order and the higher numbers go in last, they are likely to settle in the middle and be more likely to be drawn first. It becomes less of an issue the fewer numbers there are. There will be other things as well that ensure it isn’t completely random. Sometimes you see the person picking them try mix the numbers up and all they do is swirl them round and they all stay in the same place relative to each other. Compare that to how the lottery numbers get mixed up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 58 minutes ago, Flash said: I don’t think any cup draw is completely random. In order to achieve that, you’d need to use the same system that they use for national lottery draws. Tipping the numbers into a basin (or whatever) won’t always produce completely random selections. If, for example, the numbers are all set out in order and the higher numbers go in last, they are likely to settle in the middle and be more likely to be drawn first. It becomes less of an issue the fewer numbers there are. There will be other things as well that ensure it isn’t completely random. Sometimes you see the person picking them try mix the numbers up and all they do is swirl them round and they all stay in the same place relative to each other. Compare that to how the lottery numbers get mixed up. Plus you would need to do away with the heated balls too! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiviLion Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Flash said: Sometimes you see the person picking them try mix the numbers up and all they do is swirl them round and they all stay in the same place relative to each other. Compare that to how the lottery numbers get mixed up. They usually have their hand on the same ball (stop giggling in the back) the whole time as well, which makes the swirling very pointless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 No surprise with the televised games. Obviously there’s better games that Rangers v Queen of the South, but Premier’s MO is well-known by now. I suppose we can hope that Viaplay have a different perspective when they take over, but I don’t hold out much hope. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Celtic Twitter is weird. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 8 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: They do at the start of the draw. They don't as it progresses. After the first name is out the other 7 seeds only have a 3 in 7 chance of a home draw. If it was truly randomised, they'd still have a 50/50 shot. Same theory will apply to every second tie with differing levels of probability (2 in 5, 1 in 3 and then zero). And the same also applies to the non seed except their chance increases briefly rather than decreasing every second tie. It might seem like the coin never comes up tails if you only count the times it comes up heads. After the second name comes out it is back to being a 50:50. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Blue Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, The Master said: Celtic Twitter is weird. Priceless ... honestly, the sheer temerity of the other 40 league clubs insisting on actually taking part in the season's competitions instead of simply handing over the 3 points/cup wins to the precious twins. All of us "also rans" should be thoroughly ashamed of ourselves. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, The Master said: Celtic Twitter is weird. And when the tie is over, they will be the ones attacking Celtic Park with their sharks rioting after County fire them out of the League Cup yet again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 56 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said: It might seem like the coin never comes up tails if you only count the times it comes up heads. After the second name comes out it is back to being a 50:50. Uh huh. I'm aware of that thanks. That would be why I noted that every second draw wasnt 50/50. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 20 hours ago, LiviLion said: They usually have their hand on the same ball (stop giggling in the back) the whole time as well, which makes the swirling very pointless. Go on Granville, J J J J Jiggle it a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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