Birth rates / Fertility

[ICTChris]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Not so sure about that.

In 1990 I was paying about 33% of my disposable income on rent.

Is it as bad as that now for most people?

Those in cities on low incomes? Probably yes.

Most people are probably paying less as a percentage though.

The average rent for a two bedroom property in Edinburgh is £1200 a month so to have that as a third of your income you’d have to be earning £3600 a month after tax, which is roughly about what someone earning £60,000 a year makes. I doubt a huge number of renters make £60k a year.

[Bairnardo]

I envy oaksoft in some ways, having been so successful in unplugging himself from reality.

[throbber]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

"Darling hubby, shall we have unprotected sex tonight?"

"Hang on sweetheart. Let me fire up my spreadsheet and check our post-tax outgoings first".

Where to even begin ?

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Not so sure about that.

In 1990 I was paying about 33% of my disposable income on rent.

Is it as bad as that now for most people?

Those in cities on low incomes? Probably yes.

Most people are probably paying less as a percentage though.

1980 the average was 12.5%.

Maybe something happened to council housing between then and 1990?

Turns out the cost of buying proportional to wages has roughly (just under) doubled over that time, so i was wrong about that. 

The relative cost of renting is up about 3.5 times though. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/BN161.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwil6LqO8_34AhVKXsAKHfQrA7UQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2017D3pVwXRZaELvWqt7Kn

[Oystercatcher]

I don't have kids.

To suggest there is some sort of selfishness involved in this is offensive and archaic.

 

[Granny Danger]

10 minutes ago, Oystercatcher said:

I don't have kids.

To suggest there is some sort of selfishness involved in this is offensive and archaic.

 

^^^ ugly as f**k.

[Oystercatcher]

24 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

^^^ ugly as f**k.

 

[Scary Bear]

11 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Falling birth rates and the implications for society have been in the news the last few weeks. 

Writing in the Sunday Times academic Paul Morland argued that reduced birth rates will cause huge issues for society in the future, including soaring care and health costs and labour shortages. Most controversially he suggested “negative tax credits” for those who don’t have children, ie a tax on the childless.

here is Morlands article - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/should-we-tax-the-childless-j7h9c297r

There was a response to this from Aaron Bastani, who wrote an article summarised in this thread

Essentially arguing rather than blasting people without kids with taxes governments should invest and try to open up the housing market to improve the birth rate. To be fair to Morland, he does suggests similar in his piece.

What do P&Bers think about birth rates?

Should P&Bers who selfishly refuse to squeeze out a few kids have their assets stripped?

have any P&Bers had enough children to qualify for a Ceacescu-style patriotic medal of procreation?

 

I don’t really think about birth rates. Have kids or don’t have kids. If the government are that worried about it they should incentivise people by rewarding them for having kids.

No.

How many kids do you need to knock out for a medal?

[Scary Bear]

5 hours ago, welshbairn said:

The richer countries get, the lower the birth rate.

Is that why the government are making everything so expensive? A poorer country is a shagging, baby-making country.

[senorsoupe]

Mrs. Soupe and I are unable to have children naturally for medical reasons, but we plan to adopt.  At the beginning of February we got approval to adopt a child from Ukraine, which has turned out to be fantastic timing...  

Eventually we will get there

[DA Baracus]

Taxing folk who don't have kids is a tax on the poor/not well off (yet again!), those with mental illness and the sterile.

Not a fan.

[DA Baracus]

Just now, senorsoupe said:

Mrs. Soupe and I are unable to have children naturally for medical reasons, but we plan to adopt.  At the beginning of February we got approval to adopt a child from Ukraine, which has turned out to be fantastic timing...  

Eventually we will get there

You and the wife are fine people!

My younger brother and his husband have just recently been approved to adpot, so will be starting the process soon.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

46 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

I don’t really think about birth rates. Have kids or don’t have kids. If the government are that worried about it they should incentivise people by rewarding them for having kids.

No.

How many kids do you need to knock out for a medal?

Our glorious leader has 7 so that’s the number to beat.

 

[SweeperDee]

Any potential taxes for not having children will be getting dodged by myself and my partner through any means possible, what a ridiculous idea. We don’t want kids because we want to not spend the most productive years of our lives (socially, financially, generally) tied down. Earth doesn’t need anymore humans, can’t wait for it all to be over.

[mathematics]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

"Darling hubby, shall we have unprotected sex tonight?"

"Hang on sweetheart. Let me fire up my spreadsheet and check our post-tax outgoings first".

If that’s the level of your writing then those films aren’t going to do shit.

[DA Baracus]

Some new titles for Oaksoft:

- Spread (your legs) sheet

- HouseHole budget

- Savings Asscount

- Incumings and Outgoings

- Moneyshot

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

A ton of choice for about £400-£500 pcm including shared accommodation, 1 bed... flats.

Given we are talking about couples not wanting to have children, can you not perhaps see why the above may not exactly be suitable?

[DA Baracus]

9 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

 

I never cry about weather mate. Never. Not a big fan of wind though but only because I'm half way up a hill and keep losing tiles.

BTW those suggested titles are hilarious. My favourite is HouseHole Budget. If you see a film called that anytime soon, you'll know where the idea came from.

Thanks. 

I want a cut if it happens!

[The Moonster]

9 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I'm not convinced that it's about finances.

I think that a lot of women are beginning to realise that life has a lot more to offer than just having children and sitting at home raising them like their parents and grandparents did.

A hell of a lot more.

And having kids simply gets in the way of all of that because widespread sexism in the home and society means that inevitably the woman gets dumped with the kids. IMO a lot of women are done with wasting their lives with that shite.

Why do you think staying at home to look after kids is "wasting their lives"? 

I quit my job in December, had a wean 5 weeks ago and I'll be the stay at home dad for the foreseeable future. I don't see any of this pish you're talking about in society or at home, if that were the case I would likely receive backlash for not making my Mrs stay at home instead. We've had nothing but support from anyone we've spoken to. 

[coprolite]

19 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

We've spoken before about the danger of taking "averages" too literally.

Here's the reality - a brief survey of rental prices for flats in the Manchester area for example (I could pick any major town or city and get a similar result).

A ton of choice for about £400-£500 pcm including shared accommodation, 1 bed and 2 bed flats. This is considerably less than 33% of the average take-home pay.

Properties To Rent in Greater Manchester | Rightmove

Obviously if people are going to include city centre flats or take a flat bigger than they need, that rental price will go up.

Nobody is going to persuade me that things are tougher now than they were in the 80s and 90s.

Can't argue with stats like that.