Who will be the next permanent manager of the Conservatives?

[Salt n Vinegar]

27 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

I'm extremely disappointed she's not said anything about 'tartan gonks', tbh. 

LIZ Truss will look to rebrand Scottish independence as “separatism” in an effort to paint the movement in a negative light, reports say.

ET became a committed separatist as soon as the EU referendum result was announced. 

[Busta Nut]

16 hours ago, Left Back said:

You looking for a breakdown of salary’s of all candidates or just the ones you perceive as being rich?  You’d likely be surprised how many non-tory candidates earn good money before/during their political career.

I was asking what salary an MSP gets. There are a lot of MSPs who fail to get votes for themselves but end up with a job as an MSP via the back door.

 

[Granny Danger]

13 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I was asking what salary an MSP gets. There are a lot of MSPs who fail to get votes for themselves but end up with a job as an MSP via the back door.

 

It’s not the “back door”, it’s part of PR.  Do you prefer FPTP?

[Busta Nut]

I know how the system work. Never mind.

[carpetmonster]

9 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

It’s not the “back door”, it’s part of PR.  Do you prefer FPTP?

If I can speak for Busta - or actually I’m just speaking for myself - it’s the way that the PR system gets exploited by parties who know fine well their candidate is about as appealing as a bag of lukewarm sick, but x% of voters in a given constituency would vote for a bag of lukewarm sick provided it was the right colour so they parachute it into that to make sure it gets the percentage needed to get in. Happens in FPTP also - I doubt Tony Blair could point Sedgefield out on a map - but Stephen Kerr being able to call himself an elected representative of the people is fairly obviously hideous. 

[Left Back]

29 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I was asking what salary an MSP gets. There are a lot of MSPs who fail to get votes for themselves but end up with a job as an MSP via the back door.

 

https://www.parliament.scot/msps/msp-salaries

[welshbairn]

18 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

It’s not the “back door”, it’s part of PR.  Do you prefer FPTP?

I'd prefer a different system for voting in list candidates, they seem pretty well unaccountable to anyone outside their party leadership.

[Mark Connolly]

7 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

If I can speak for Busta - or actually I’m just speaking for myself - it’s the way that the PR system gets exploited by parties who know fine well their candidate is about as appealing as a bag of lukewarm sick, but x% of voters in a given constituency would vote for a bag of lukewarm sick provided it was the right colour so they parachute it into that to make sure it gets the percentage needed to get in. Happens in FPTP also - I doubt Tony Blair could point Sedgefield out on a map - but Stephen Kerr being able to call himself an elected representative of the people is fairly obviously hideous. 

cough - Murdo Fraser- cough

[carpetmonster]

3 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

cough - Murdo Fraser- cough

That’s a bit unfair; Murdo could call himself being representative of certain people, and then the question of whether those people *should* be represented is another debate entirely. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by carpetmonster

[Granny Danger]

21 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

If I can speak for Busta - or actually I’m just speaking for myself - it’s the way that the PR system gets exploited by parties who know fine well their candidate is about as appealing as a bag of lukewarm sick, but x% of voters in a given constituency would vote for a bag of lukewarm sick provided it was the right colour so they parachute it into that to make sure it gets the percentage needed to get in. Happens in FPTP also - I doubt Tony Blair could point Sedgefield out on a map - but Stephen Kerr being able to call himself an elected representative of the people is fairly obviously hideous. 

Yeah PR isn’t perfect but it’s a damn site better than the alternatives.  There’s no point complaining about it unless you’re willing to accept the alternative.

 

[Granny Danger]

18 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'd prefer a different system for voting in list candidates, they seem pretty well unaccountable to anyone outside their party leadership.

What system?

[Left Back]

2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

What system?

FPTP

[welshbairn]

29 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

What system?

Panachage. It means you vote for a candidate or candidates from the list rather than party. So someone like Andy Wightman could stand as an independent with a serious chance of getting elected.

[Miguel Sanchez]

:jos:

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Panachage. It means you vote for a candidate or candidates from the list rather than party. So someone like Andy Wightman could stand as an independent with a serious chance of getting elected.

Where is this system used?

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Where is this system used?

France, Switzerland, parts of Germany, a few other places.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panachage

Edited August 17, 2022 by welshbairn

[Granny Danger]

6 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

France, Switzerland, parts of Germany, a few other places.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panachage

So not too popular?

Looks like people are looking for a problem that doesn’t really exist.  So what if we’ve got some list MSPs?

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

So not too popular?

Looks like people are looking for a problem that doesn’t really exist.  So what if we’ve got some list MSPs?

I'd rather choose who I'm electing rather than some Party boss. Our representatives are supposed to be accountable to us, not Party HQs.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'd rather choose who I'm electing rather than some Party boss. Our representatives are supposed to be accountable to us, not Party HQs.

Don’t think it would feature in my top 100 political issues.  Maybe not even in the top 1,000.

[welshbairn]

9 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Don’t think it would feature in my top 100 political issues.  Maybe not even in the top 1,000.

It's a jobs for the boys scam masquerading as democracy. Democratic legitimacy is important, MSPs are being voted out by electors only for the parties to pop them back in through the list. Plenty countries have Open List systems, Panachage is just one variety.

Quote

Open list describes any variant of party-list proportional representation where voters have at least some influence on the order in which a party's candidates are elected. This is as opposed to closed list, which allows only active members, party officials, or consultants to determine the order of its candidates and gives the general voter no influence at all on the position of the candidates placed on the party list. Additionally, an open list system allows voters to select individuals rather than parties. Different systems give the voter different amounts of influence. The voter's choice is usually called preference vote; the voters are usually allowed one or more preference votes to the open list candidates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_list

Edited August 17, 2022 by welshbairn