The Queen of the South thread

[Alex Nesovic's Barmy Army]

5 hours ago, sneeuq said:

 and doubt Paton is good enough for Championship level. 

This take won't be brought up again am sure.  

[MazzyStar]

5 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Wow. The worst take since Monkey Tennis decided Lyndon Dykes wasnt good enough for it either. 

Have you forgotten about last season already? 

[qos1990]

On 10/02/2023 at 14:05, Otis Blue said:

Of those contracted beyond this season, Brydon (signed by Bartley) is obviously part of the plans and young Gibson is clearly a talent to be developed.  Wilson is a great midfield asset but he's made of glass and sadly can't be relied on - and Bartley will know this.  Reilly isn't rated by Bartley and will be off if someone will take him, as will P McKay.

Loanees - Dabrowski is a no-brainer and we'll offer him a contract but he'll probably command better offers than us.  Logan and Kabia I'm not sure, Bartley has been happy to bring them in and have a look at them so it will depend how they perform in the rest of this season.  I haven't seen either yet so can't express a view on them.

I think Bartley likes the energy that the younger prospects bring to the team (eg McKechnie, Muir, Irving, McGrory etc) and that they fit the bill of players who can still be improved through coaching so they may be offered new deals even if they're not automatic first choice starts.

However, I'm sure that Bartley will want to build his own squad for next season.  Top priority for him will be the spine of the team: keeper, central defence and striker.  Guys like D McKay, Hendrie, McKenna, Quitongo, Murray and East (although he's generally OK for me - apart from his brain fart on Tuesday night at Hamilton) are unlikely to be offered deals.

Cochrane, Todd and Paton should be OK, although Paton may have better offers (don't know why though) - I get the feeling Paton needs an out and out front man to play off though.

Connelly is a difficult one, hasn't featured much in Bartley's short time here (mainly due to injury I think).  He's clearly talented and if motivated and playing in the right position he's an asset ... but he'll need to catch Bartley's attention before the season ends.

Generally, if any of the current squad want to be part of our plans for next season, then they've got 12 games left to show Marvin why he should keep them - they need to work hard for their contracts - and that's how it should be.

You’d punt east? But keep Todd? 

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, MazzyStar said:

Have you forgotten about last season already? 

I have no idea what this post means? Paton did fine last season, generally not playing as a centre forward.

[Rjc-1988]

9 hours ago, sneeuq said:

Agree with all of this if we stay in Div 1.  If, although unlikely, we get up to Championship then prob alters things slightly. Think some of the loanees will more likely stay and doubt Paton is good enough for Championship level. Reilly has been a real frustration as he obviously should have what it takes (esp for Div 1) but for some reason has really let himself down.

In terms of getting to the play off then we should finish above montrose and edinburgh (certainly on current form) so it depends what happens to Alloa and Airdrie. We we only play Alloa once more and we need to play Dunfermline twice then  I think it will be a really long shot to over take them. We do play Airdrie 2x so that might be the key and could be an exciting end to the season.

Don't get the negativity about Paton - has been our best player by a country mile this season. His hold up play has been excellent, his work rate and effort have put others to shame and his goal scoring record in a very poor team has been outstanding. I should also mention his appearance record - always fit to play. I am sure that he will have had many niggling injuries in his time with us but he is always up for playing and seldom ever misses a game ( hope I don't jinx him). Contrast that with Wilson and Connelly. I do rate Wilson - clearly a good player but you just cant rely on him and this recurring injury nightmare just goes on and on. 

[Monkey Tennis]

8 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Wow. The worst take since Monkey Tennis decided Lyndon Dykes wasnt good enough for it either. 

I will not bite.

I will not bite...

[MazzyStar]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I have no idea what this post means? Paton did fine last season, generally not playing as a centre forward.

Must have a different definition of “fine” to me. 

[19QOS19]

3 minutes ago, MazzyStar said:

Must have a different definition of “fine” to me. 

I thought he was fine as well tbh. I think on several occasions I commented about how Paton was wasted out wide and should be given a run up front. He's no Stephen Dobbie but I don't think there's any question he's been our best striker since been given regular game time up front. 

I don't think he'd be particularly prolific in the Championship just now but with a decent partner he could probably reach double figures. The top flight is probably a step too far the now but for me he's improved every season so there's no reason why he can't continue with that to become a top striker. 

[Skyline Drifter]

He's the top scorer in league one and has a fair few assists too. There's not a team in the Championship wouldn't take him if they could, almost certainly as a starter.

The notion that he's not good enough for the Championship is an utterly wild take. And yet two posters are now saying it. Double wow. 

[MazzyStar]

I didn’t think he was very good last season and has been better this season obviously. Maybe “not good enough for the championship” is too extreme but I wouldn’t expect him to get near his current form in the championship. 

[Alex Nesovic's Barmy Army]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

I thought he was fine as well tbh. I think on several occasions I commented about how Paton was wasted out wide and should be given a run up front. He's no Stephen Dobbie but I don't think there's any question he's been our best striker since been given regular game time up front. 

I don't think he'd be particularly prolific in the Championship just now but with a decent partner he could probably reach double figures. The top flight is probably a step too far the now but for me he's improved every season so there's no reason why he can't continue with that to become a top striker. 

Definitely wasted out wide. I remember one game he appeared to be playing centre mid under AJ.

He'd benefit greatly from having a proper striker upfront with him.

[Otis Blue]

4 hours ago, qos1990 said:

You’d punt east? But keep Todd? 

If you read my OP I tried to express the view as might be seen from Bartley's perspective of only having seen very few games so far (although I probably should have explained that better in the OP).  I tried to temper that in some cases by giving my own view of certain players - eg for East I said that he was "generally OK for me".  But I get the feeling that from Bartley's viewpoint he may well be thinking that the rotten part of this squad is the defence and as he may well know of better options out there then he might just decide to bin the whole defence bar Brydon obviously who he has just signed up.  So this might appear a bit unfair on East - it was just me trying to put my head inside Bartley's.

Todd I think is quite a creative midfielder on his day, but he tends to go missing when we are up against it and Bartley will no doubt see this.  So yeah, you could be right in that Todd may not be Bartley's idea of what we need in midfield.

It's just a guessing game here isn't it?  We're just trying to second guess what Bartley is thinking now.

[Otis Blue]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I will not bite.

I will not bite...

Oh go on MT ... bite ... please bite ... we've a whole week to go before our next game, and we're all getting a bit bored, aye? 

[Otis Blue]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

He's the top scorer in league one and has a fair few assists too. There's not a team in the Championship wouldn't take him if they could, almost certainly as a starter.

The notion that he's not good enough for the Championship is an utterly wild take. And yet two posters are now saying it. Double wow. 

Paton is clearly decent at L1 level and the Pars or the Bairns would welcome him into their squads, no problem.  That said, it's a step up at Championship level and Accies defence had him well marshalled on Tuesday night.  As others on here have said I think he'd benefit from playing off an out and out striker.  He could also be a player that Bartley thinks he can improve further via coaching though.  He'd certainly be in my squad for next season, no probs.

[Skyline Drifter]

4 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

Paton is clearly decent at L1 level and the Pars or the Bairns would welcome him into their squads, no problem.  That said, it's a step up at Championship level and Accies defence had him well marshalled on Tuesday night.

He also absolutely bullied Ayr early season in a man of the match performance at Somerset and played well and scored against St Johnstone too. And whilst they were pre season friendlies he gave both Raith and Accies lots of trouble before that too, scoring in both games, albeit the Raith one was a penalty.

I think Accies cut off the supply to him in the final 3rd more so than they actually dealt with him directly. We barely made a chance Tuesday for all our good possession and Paton resorted to coming deep looking for the ball. John Rankin's no fool. He identified the need to stop the supply.

For balance, I dont think he got much change out of Morton in November though.

[Slipmat]

It does seem to be a recurring feature at Palmerston where a manager will persist with dross up top when they have a perfectly good striker on the books who they insist on playing out wide.

Gus played Nicky Clark out wide while Tam Brighton was his preferred CF.

AJ played Shields wide with East up top until injury forced his hand.

...and then played Paton on the wing while Ally Roy, Ruben Junior and *shudder" Innes Cameron were all seen as better options at CF.

 

[Manwithnoball]

Ultimately the decision for Paton if he is given the option to play higher up. He easily could be a regular in championship team like Ayr or Morton or does he sign on for another year under project Bartley. 

We should go all out to try and tempt Dabrowski to sign cracking keeper and would make a huge difference in L1. 

Logan and Kabia have the rest of the campaign to prove they are the answer. 

It could be a full rebuild if players don't impress Bartley and I am sure he will have already compiled a list of players he would like to work with in the future. 

Interestingly from Bartley's interview on Alba he said his philosophy is winning game switch the players he has inherited and getting a formation that suits those players and then implement his own style when he has his own players and has that winning mentality. Plus signs so far are the increase in fitness in a small space of time. The players know if they do not follow his instructions they will be watching the game. Found it interesting in Hamilton game he used McKenna before D McKay does that mean he does not rate him either. Expect some movement over the next fortnight with players going out. Obviously the 3 he has mentioned but possibly others as well. 

Hopefully Wilson and Connelly back in full training this week to give more options. We were to open in the Hamilton game and Cochrane was fighting the midfield battle on his own due to Murray and Todd being more forward thinking. 

Cochrane has been really good since Bartley came in and I think it would be more beneficial to have him and Wilson in the centre of midfield to give us that solidity. 

Have been really impressed by young Brydon he obviously was one of the first parts of Bartley's jigsaw. 

 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, Slipmat said:

It does seem to be a recurring feature at Palmerston where a manager will persist with dross up top when they have a perfectly good striker on the books who they insist on playing out wide.

Gus played Nicky Clark out wide while Tam Brighton was his preferred CF.

AJ played Shields wide with East up top until injury forced his hand.

...and then played Paton on the wing while Ally Roy, Ruben Junior and *shudder" Innes Cameron were all seen as better options at CF.

 

I'm not sure either of the first two statements is accurate. Or at least to the extent they are true, it was a different player.

From my memory Nicky Clark played generally as a link between midfield and forward (centrally) when he played under Gus. I don't recall him playing much out wide. His forward was more often than not Kevin Smith though, not Brighton. It may have been Brighton if he'd been fit enough but he wasn't. He started 8 of our 1st 9 league games and barely kicked a ball after that. Kevin Smith was up front more often until Sam Parkin signed in January, after which it was Parkin.

Shields played as a wider forward in a three, as did East. The centre forward until he got injured at Morton was Dobbie. I'm not sure East ever played as the centre forward other than a League Cup group match at Queen's Park when Dobbie was left on the bench. Shields big run of games and goals from December through January came when he went through the middle instead of Dobbie.

[QoS99]

I have to say, I am really excited about having MB in charge of us at the minute. I personally wanted a more experienced head in charge (McCall if he got binned, or McCann), but I am really happy with how we have ended up. I know things are ridiculously early, but to me you can already see a huge difference in terms of our fitness. MB being ruthless and getting (or trying) to get rid of the absolute jobbers in our team is a positive sign, and the way he communicates, as well as his recruitment (Dabrowski and Brydon especially) look as though they will make a big difference. 

Think the season is too far gone for play offs unfortunately. For me, it is between us, Alloa and Edinburgh City for that fourth spot (with Dunfermline, Falkirk and Airdrie nailed down as top three). I can see Alloa scraping into that last spot personally. But, I would feel optimistic next year in this division (especially if Falkirk go up, and say a Hamilton/Arbroath come down). Remember Martindale saying when MB took the job he was surprised he never got a Championship gig, here's hoping a summer where he can get his own players in will see us up challenging for the league and (hopefully) get back into the Championship.

Edited February 12, 2023 by QoS99

[Otis Blue]

I see that's wee McCall binned by Partick (despite taking the Forces of Darkness close in the cup in Govan this afternoon).  Timing is everything in football ... had this been 2 months back we might have been talking to McCall about our vacancy ...