The Queen of the South thread

[Greenacres]

2 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

We need to find a fortune to get grass back apparently. 

Artificial pitches aren't the issue; shite artificial pitches are the problem. 

Think I remember when Raith got a artificial pitch the chairmen said they paid that bit extra to get  high quality .

It certainly looks very good night and day compared to ours.

[Otis Blue]

31 minutes ago, Greenacres said:

Think I remember when Raith got a artificial pitch the chairmen said they paid that bit extra to get  high quality .

Perhaps they did ... but aren't the same Raith Rovers facing some financial difficulties now?

If finances were no constraint we should be going for one of those fancy wooby doo hybrid grass/artificial pitches such as they have at Murrayfield and many of the top football clubs complete with huge robotic mobile sun lamps to ensure continued grass growth out of season - but that's fantasy land at our level.

So I'm sure that the club weighed up the total costs of a real grass surface (labour costs, maintenance equipment and periodic re-seeding/sand/nutrients etc) per annum versus the total costs of an artificial pitch (purchase costs, installation costs, maintenance costs including labour, equipment and materials) and also taking into account the revenue that could be obtained from hiring out the carpet (whereas its difficult to hire out the grass pitch due to the increased wear effects) and the extra costs/lost income of the grass surface being unplayable in winter conditions.  The net result being that we ended up with a carpet.

Now of course, several years on the club will have real figures (rather than future projections) to hand of the various costs and additional rental revenues to consider when assessing what to do now - either go back to grass our buy a new magic carpet.  It's not rocket science as the saying goes - the figures will dictate the decision.  We might bump our gums if we don't like the final selection, but the financial aspects are probably key to the eventual decision.

[QoS99]

10 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

Perhaps they did ... but aren't the same Raith Rovers facing some financial difficulties now?

If finances were no constraint we should be going for one of those fancy wooby doo hybrid grass/artificial pitches such as they have at Murrayfield and many of the top football clubs complete with huge robotic mobile sun lamps to ensure continued grass growth out of season - but that's fantasy land at our level.

So I'm sure that the club weighed up the total costs of a real grass surface (labour costs, maintenance equipment and periodic re-seeding/sand/nutrients etc) per annum versus the total costs of an artificial pitch (purchase costs, installation costs, maintenance costs including labour, equipment and materials) and also taking into account the revenue that could be obtained from hiring out the carpet (whereas its difficult to hire out the grass pitch due to the increased wear effects) and the extra costs/lost income of the grass surface being unplayable in winter conditions.  The net result being that we ended up with a carpet.

Now of course, several years on the club will have real figures (rather than future projections) to hand of the various costs and additional rental revenues to consider when assessing what to do now - either go back to grass our buy a new magic carpet.  It's not rocket science as the saying goes - the figures will dictate the decision.  We might bump our gums if we don't like the final selection, but the financial aspects are probably key to the eventual decision.

Think Raith are recovering from the Goodwillie fiasco and their owner wants to sell I think, which partly explains their finances, not sure how much of it would be to do with the expense of the pitch. Pretty sure we are expecting a big financial loss this year, so would imagine it will make the decision easy for the board to stick with Astro rather than ripping it all up to replace it with grass.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

4 hours ago, Greenacres said:

I would rather we went back to a good  grass pitch but that's  not going to happen .

Not a fan of artifical pitches but understand it makes sense  to hire out Palmy to try and make extra income.

I'm sure we were told that installing an artificial pitch would be  great source of income for the Club but it's since been mentioned that it's a very poor source, especially since Heston Rovers stopped using it. 

[Honky Tonk Man]

Much as I dislike plastic, another advantage is that it mitigates fixture congestion. If players csn play regularly and avoid a run of x games in x days because of previous weather related cancellations, then that also has to be an advantage. There have been times when we've been one of the few games that are played in the league. This also helps cash flow. Plus I have seen some dreadful natural pitches.

[Skyline Drifter]

I dont hate 3G pitches.

Ours is end of life and is showing its age. There's nothing particularly special about Raith's pitch, its just newer. When ours is renewed it'll be bdtter than theirs. Such is the nature of these things. Newer ones are better than older ones.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

2 hours ago, Honky Tonk Man said:

Much as I dislike plastic, another advantage is that it mitigates fixture congestion. If players csn play regularly and avoid a run of x games in x days because of previous weather related cancellations, then that also has to be an advantage. There have been times when we've been one of the few games that are played in the league. This also helps cash flow. Plus I have seen some dreadful natural pitches.

Aye, People who complain about the "unnatural" bounce or roll of the ball on artificial surfaces often forget that the condition of grass pitches can change two or three times during a game if weather conditions change which also affects the run/bounce of the ball. It's a no brainer that a good, well maintained grass pitch is better than plastic, and I'd love to see one at Palmerston, but the upkeep would probably be too expensive. 

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I dont hate 3G pitches.

Ours is end of life and is showing its age. There's nothing particularly special about Raith's pitch, its just newer. When ours is renewed it'll be bdtter than theirs. Such is the nature of these things. Newer ones are better than older ones.

Is it not the case that the substructure of the Starks Park pitch gives more cushioning even if the actual top carpet is not particularly special? I'm sure in a previous discussion Raith fans said extra money had been spent on this. 

[QoS99]

10 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

Aye, People who complain about the "unnatural" bounce or roll of the ball on artificial surfaces often forget that the condition of grass pitches can change two or three times during a game if weather conditions change which also affects the run/bounce of the ball. It's a no brainer that a good, well maintained grass pitch is better than plastic, and I'd love to see one at Palmerston, but the upkeep would probably be too expensive. 

Is it not the case that the substructure of the Starks Park pitch gives more cushioning even if the actual top carpet is not particularly special? I'm sure in a previous discussion Raith fans said extra money had been spent on this. 

But on the other hand, how are teams like Arbroath and Brechin able to afford a very good grass pitch? 

[Fae_the_'briggs]

23 minutes ago, QoS99 said:

But on the other hand, how are teams like Arbroath and Brechin able to afford a very good grass pitch? 

Is Brechin's a good grass pitch, wasn't that great the last time I was there iirc. Not overusing the pitch could be your answer. Greenock Morton's pitch was always lauded a a good surface but it deteriated badly over the past few seasons because reserve and colt games were played there, not sure if its better now? I'm no Alan Titmarsh but I would say avoiding drainage problems will obviously help to maintain a good pitch but can be costly to rectify if they later develop. 

[QoS99]

20 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

Is Brechin's a good grass pitch, wasn't that great the last time I was there iirc. Not overusing the pitch could be your answer. Greenock Morton's pitch was always lauded a a good surface but it deteriated badly over the past few seasons because reserve and colt games were played there, not sure if its better now? I'm no Alan Titmarsh but I would say avoiding drainage problems will obviously help to maintain a good pitch but can be costly to rectify if they later develop. 

I think Brechin now do have a good pitch yeah, they post photos on twitter of the surface from a Birds Eye view and it looks decent

[Greenacres]

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I dont hate 3G pitches.

Ours is end of life and is showing its age. There's nothing particularly special about Raith's pitch, its just newer. When ours is renewed it'll be bdtter than theirs. Such is the nature of these things. Newer ones are better than older ones.

Are you sure Raith pitch is so much softer has more below it ours is like playing in the Arena Car Park .

I have not heard one complaint from any player about it or even Falkirk which has been down for a few years . 

More or less from the start players  have complained about  our pitch saying it is easily the worse they have played on.

This makes a change normally I moan about the players on the pitch.

 

[Fae_the_'briggs]

18 minutes ago, QoS99 said:

I think Brechin now do have a good pitch yeah, they post photos on twitter of the surface from a Birds Eye view and it looks decent

A  good plan by Brechin to spend money on a good pitch rather than players as they slipped down through the divisions. 

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

Is it not the case that the substructure of the Starks Park pitch gives more cushioning even if the actual top carpet is not particularly special? I'm sure in a previous discussion Raith fans said extra money had been spent on this. 

No.

And if it did it wouldnt be legal. There are fairly tight ranges of roll and bounce these pitches need to give to pass inspection. Raith paid extra to have green crumb instead of black for aesthetics, as we did originally though its been renewed over the years with black.

[Rouky]

Bring back the grass pitch.

[Otis Blue]

4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Ours is end of life and is showing its age. There's nothing particularly special about Raith's pitch, its just newer. When ours is renewed it'll be better than theirs ...

So, I'd suggest that SD's post above ends the debate (at least about what the club intends to do) - our carpet pitch is now at the end of its life and it will be renewed - ie reading between the lines, we will not be returning to a grass pitch.  It is what it is and we move on.

[trotsky27]

5 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I dont hate 3G pitches.

Ours is end of life and is showing its age. There's nothing particularly special about Raith's pitch, its just newer. When ours is renewed it'll be bdtter than theirs. Such is the nature of these things. Newer ones are better than older ones.

Is it still the plan when it is replaced to lay our old pitch at the kgv? Am sure that was said when we took over the kgv?

[Fae_the_'briggs]

1 hour ago, trotsky27 said:

Is it still the plan when it is replaced to lay our old pitch at the kgv? Am sure that was said when we took over the kgv?

I thought our original artificial pitch which was replaced after about 1 season had been re-laid at KGV, don't know it its the plan to replace it again when Palmerston is renewed.

[annan4eva]

3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

No.

And if it did it wouldnt be legal. There are fairly tight ranges of roll and bounce these pitches need to give to pass inspection. Raith paid extra to have green crumb instead of black for aesthetics, as we did originally though its been renewed over the years with black.

I first went to Palmerston in the 70 s the park was a joy. My first night game was v Rotherham ( managed by Tommy Doc ) 

[Slipmat]

Interestingly yesterday's match at Palmerston was called off due to the pitch being frozen, so while you would expect a plastic pitch to be "all-weather", having one is no guarantee that matches will not be postponed in the future.  Similarly the 3G pitches in the region at Newton Stewart, Kirkcudbright and Lockerbie seem to be susceptible to drainage/freezing issues and games are frequently called off or moved accordingly.

But...

...there's no way I'd like to see us having a grass surface that ends up similar to the one at Firhill last season which was a victim of overuse and possibly drainage issues due to being sited so close to the basin, so although my heart says grass my head says plastic - provided the plastic is affordably replaced with quality more frequently and not hung onto until the bitter end when it fails "the tests" like the present surface.

As FTB says above Heston no longer use the pitch on alternative Saturdays, can anyone enlighten me as to how much community (ie non-QOS) usage the pitch gets these days?

Finally, it breaks my heart that the three traditional grass pitches in the town from my youth - Kingholm, The Holm & Jock's - are all now virtually unusable no doubt down to drainage through location in part (but they have always had that issue) but also to a larger extent the council's failure to maintain them - even basics like cutting the grass!  Speaking of the past I miss orange balls and pitches which are half bathed in sunshine and half white with frost!

Edited January 22 by Slipmat

[annan4eva]

20 hours ago, the_palmy_pie said:

Players and supporters alike absolutely hate these pitches. It’s time for change.. 

A fortune to plough a small area of land sew wait and prepare ? The world is madder than i thought