The Queen of the South thread

[Alex Nesovic's Barmy Army]

A great name and a cracking goal up at ICT on that run we had.

Just discovered that the wonderfully named Nortei Nortey is now playing with the equally wonderfully named Northern Colorado Hailstorm [emoji1787]

[sidofthesouth]

I’ve just read elsewhere the pitch won’t be replaced until the Summer of 2023. 

“Elsewhere” - could you be more specific? Is this definite?

[Monkey Tennis]

3 hours ago, TERREGLES1919 said:

I can see Queens being happy mid table in League One for a good number of seasons with no fear of relegation to League Two or pushing for the play-offs for the Championship.

That's a narrow little section of the table we'll be aiming for each season, whereby we're not even pushing to make the top 4, but are confidently steering well clear of the bottom two slots. 

I hope we can get it just right year on year.

[TERREGLES1919]

2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's a narrow little section of the table we'll be aiming for each season, whereby we're not even pushing to make the top 4, but are confidently steering well clear of the bottom two slots. 

I hope we can get it just right year on year.

I suppose the play-offs are good in respect to having something to compete for until the end of the season. 

Remember in the Eighties when there were 14 or more clubs on each league and teams having a lot of dead rubbers towards the end of the season.

[Slipmat]

44 minutes ago, TERREGLES1919 said:

I suppose the play-offs are good in respect to having something to compete for until the end of the season. 

Remember in the Eighties when there were 14 or more clubs on each league and teams having a lot of dead rubbers towards the end of the season.

I've never been a fan of the four team play-offs in ten team leagues.  You just have to look at 2016/17 when Brechin came up to the Championship after finishing fourth, over 30 points behind the division champions, and actually had lost more games than they won in the league over the course of that season to show how farcical they can turn out to be.  It didn't exactly help Brechin in the long run being promoted to a league that they were totally out of their depth in either.  The structure of the play-offs always favours the team finishing second bottom too.  I'd love to get back to the bottom 2 down, top 2 up scenario but that won't happen as long as Premiership teams live in fear of finishing eleventh.

 

[Riviera711]

1 hour ago, Slipmat said:

I've never been a fan of the four team play-offs in ten team leagues.  You just have to look at 2016/17 when Brechin came up to the Championship after finishing fourth, over 30 points behind the division champions, and actually had lost more games than they won in the league over the course of that season to show how farcical they can turn out to be.

Yes, one of the main fallacies of the play-offs; a team just not up to competing in a higher league wins a little mini cup competition to get promoted. Also, a team having a great spell at the end of the season sneaks into a play-off spot and is on such a roll that it wins promotion.

Some of us older/dinosaur fans always point to the whole point of a league being that the final standings usually demonstrates the overall strength of the competing teams. Of course, the usual caveats apply; a fourth placed team may end up being the better team due to January signings, new manager, players returning from injury.

Quote

The structure of the play-offs always favours the team finishing second bottom too.  I'd love to get back to the bottom 2 down, top 2 up scenario but that won't happen as long as Premiership teams live in fear of finishing eleventh.

As long as the current system prevails, we'll have to content ourselves in that it can make the last few weeks of a season more interesting than it otherwise might have been.

[Rjc-1988]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it incredible that, despite our repeated failure to triumph in any of these recent “must win matches” our ability to finish 9th is still in our own hands. To me it’s unbelievable. Dunfermline have had a couple of great home performances but their away performances have been very poor. Apparently on Sat at Killie they were woeful and the match stats certainly bore that out. 
 

If we were to beat Arbroath the Caley match would be massive. Our record against them at Palmy is truly abysmal but you just wonder how seriously they will take that match if their league finishing spot is already rubber stamped. We are long overdue some luck this season but you could say we are lucky still to have an escape route given our inability to take care of business.

This group of players is in a league of its own for repeatedly letting down fans. If it’s not conceding daft penalties it’s missing a succession of chances. Come on give us some faint hope of survival.

[TheScarf]

17 hours ago, Slipmat said:

I've never been a fan of the four team play-offs in ten team leagues.  You just have to look at 2016/17 when Brechin came up to the Championship after finishing fourth, over 30 points behind the division champions, and actually had lost more games than they won in the league over the course of that season to show how farcical they can turn out to be.  It didn't exactly help Brechin in the long run being promoted to a league that they were totally out of their depth in either.  The structure of the play-offs always favours the team finishing second bottom too.  I'd love to get back to the bottom 2 down, top 2 up scenario but that won't happen as long as Premiership teams live in fear of finishing eleventh.

 

It should be 2nd bottom v 2nd top between all the divisions.  

Awarding the team finishing mid-table in 4th out of 10 is wild.

[19QOS19]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it incredible that, despite our repeated failure to triumph in any of these recent “must win matches” our ability to finish 9th is still in our own hands. To me it’s unbelievable. Dunfermline have had a couple of great home performances but their away performances have been very poor. Apparently on Sat at Killie they were woeful and the match stats certainly bore that out. 
 
If we were to beat Arbroath the Caley match would be massive. Our record against them at Palmy is truly abysmal but you just wonder how seriously they will take that match if their league finishing spot is already rubber stamped. We are long overdue some luck this season but you could say we are lucky still to have an escape route given our inability to take care of business.
This group of players is in a league of its own for repeatedly letting down fans. If it’s not conceding daft penalties it’s missing a succession of chances. Come on give us some faint hope of survival.

It really shows the quality of the division (or lack of) that we still have a slim chance. To be pedantic, it's not really in our hands though sadly. We could win our remaining games and still finish bottom.

The last paragraph is spot on and if we somehow managed to get to the Dunfermline game with a chance of survival they'd absolutely blow it.

[Dunning1874]

36 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

It should be 2nd bottom v 2nd top between all the divisions.  

Awarding the team finishing mid-table in 4th out of 10 is wild.

If you're not including third or fourth there shouldn't be playoffs at all and it should be an automatic two up, two down.

[Guest Flash]

11 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

It really shows the quality of the division (or lack of) that we still have a slim chance. To be pedantic, it's not really in our hands though sadly. We could win our remaining games and still finish bottom.

The last paragraph is spot on and if we somehow managed to get to the Dunfermline game with a chance of survival they'd absolutely blow it.

 

 

Aye, if Queens won all 4 games, they could still end up bottom on goal difference.
 

[Otis Blue]

46 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said:

Is it just me or does anyone else find it incredible that, despite our repeated failure to triumph in any of these recent “must win matches” our ability to finish 9th is still in our own hands. To me it’s unbelievable.

I'm all for hoping that a miracle achievement of 9th will happen - unfortunately miracles and fairies at the bottom of the garden don't happen in reality and as @19QOS19 has said, it sadly isn't really in our own hands because: (i) this team can't win at least 3 of the last 4 games, and (ii) Dunfermline will NOT lose all of their remaining games - hence we are Kelty bound.  Apolgies for being a doom merchant in advance! 

[19QOS19]

I'm all for hoping that a miracle achievement of 9th will happen - unfortunately miracles and fairies at the bottom of the garden don't happen in reality and as @19QOS19 has said, it sadly isn't really in our own hands because: (i) this team can't win at least 3 of the last 4 games, and (ii) Dunfermline will NOT lose all of their remaining games - hence we are Kelty bound.  Apolgies for being a doom merchant in advance! [emoji6]

You can't wait to visit Kelty, can you? [emoji38]

[Otis Blue]

5 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

If you're not including third or fourth there shouldn't be playoffs at all and it should be an automatic two up, two down.

Yes, I get your point there but ... I think The Scarf was offering a scenario whereby the current philosophy which gives the second bottom side some hope of escape is maintained, but avoids the potential daftness of a 4th placed mid-table side getting rewarded by an unlikely promotion.

[Otis Blue]

Just now, 19QOS19 said:

You can't wait to visit Kelty, can you?

Fecking beside myself ... just can't wait ... got my Visa already!

[TheScarf]

15 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

If you're not including third or fourth there shouldn't be playoffs at all and it should be an automatic two up, two down.

Well aye, that would be even better.

[Guest Flash]

3 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

I'm all for hoping that a miracle achievement of 9th will happen - unfortunately miracles and fairies at the bottom of the garden don't happen in reality and as @19QOS19 has said, it sadly isn't really in our own hands because: (i) this team can't win at least 3 of the last 4 games, and (ii) Dunfermline will NOT lose all of their remaining games - hence we are Kelty bound.  Apolgies for being a doom merchant in advance! 

Dunfermline only have 2 other games and they wouldn’t need to lose them both. If Queens win all 4 games they will be on 38 points and could finish above Dunfermline on GD even if Dunfermline win their other games.
And, if Dunfermline get 38 points by winning their other 2 games, it would mean they beat Ayr, who could then only get 38 points as well.
The only reason it is currently out of Queens hands is because we can’t control how many Dunfermline and Ayr would beat Thistle by.
Of course, we all know it isn’t happening because Queens won’t do their bit in the first place.

[Monkey Tennis]

33 minutes ago, Flash said:

Dunfermline only have 2 other games and they wouldn’t need to lose them both. If Queens win all 4 games they will be on 38 points and could finish above Dunfermline on GD even if Dunfermline win their other games.
And, if Dunfermline get 38 points by winning their other 2 games, it would mean they beat Ayr, who could then only get 38 points as well.
The only reason it is currently out of Queens hands is because we can’t control how many Dunfermline and Ayr would beat Thistle by.
Of course, we all know it isn’t happening because Queens won’t do their bit in the first place.

Yip, it's interesting but as you say, there's no way we're winning the necessary games ourselves.

Winning 1 in a row during the remaining matches would represent progress.

[Guest Flash]

46 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yip, it's interesting but as you say, there's no way we're winning the necessary games ourselves.

Winning 1 in a row during the remaining matches would represent progress.

Just to keep it interesting at least until Saturday, if Queens did win all 4 games, I think the only way they would finish bottom would be if both Dunfermline and Ayr beat Thistle by at least 4 goals.
4 wins would put Queens on 38 points with a minimum of minus 12 GD. If Dunfermline beat Ayr and lost to Queens by 1, they’d be on minus 16 GD. Ayr losing to Dunfermline and Queens by 1 puts them on minus 16 as well. So, both would need to beat Thistle by 4 goals. This is the minimum required, it could be more.
If Queens win all their games, they can only finish bottom on GD. And this requires Dunfermline to win both their other games. If they do, then that would bring Ayr into it as well because they could only get 38 points too.
The reality is that Queens will probably be officially relegated next* Tuesday night. It can’t happen on Saturday.

*edit
 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Flash

[sidofthesouth]

I wasn't meaning to interrogate your meaning, because I feel the same way.
I was prattling on here a few weeks ago about a 'reset', but I'm not entirely sure what I meant either.  I feel that change is necessary though, because nobody could look at recent history and call this season a blip.
I suppose I want us to use the change of setting to take a look at models of recruitment and maybe the whole FT/PT thing.  I'd also not object to changing the pitch, but I know that's not happening.
 

My reset button for next season would mean:
• Stay full-time in an effort to bounce straight back up
• Gibson & Murray given 1 year manager contracts
• Rae, East, McGrory, McKechnie & Fitzpatrick to be signed on again to join Gibson, McKay, Cochrane, Paton, Cowie, Chima (!) & Todd as signed players
• Offers made to Connolly & O’ Conner, although unlikely to sign
• depending on how many of the above sign, bring in at least 6 new signings
• Lay a better plastic pitch
• start a programme of grounds maintenance

I reckon with the money we have in the bank all of the above is realistic.