The Queen of the South thread

[Distant Doonhamer]

1 minute ago, Otis Blue said:

This season's in the bin ... end of.

Bartley's assessment was always going to be measured on the squad he assembles in the close season and how it performs in Q1 next season.

As long as he can scramble together a few points to keep us in 8th with this mob, that's all we can ask. We can forget any idea of stealing points off of the top two though.

Yep that's very fair.

That said this shower have already taken a deserved point from the league leaders this season. Nonetheless we are shite. 

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

Bartley's assessment was always going to be measured on the squad he assembles in the close season and how it performs in Q1 next season.

 

...unless it was going well.  Were that the case, you wouldn't have the same people currently telling everyone to hold fire, doing that at all.  

Instead, they'd be hailing him as a genius, clamouring for an immediate extension to his contract. 

[Diamonds are Forever]

41 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

...unless it was going well.  Were that the case, you wouldn't have the same people currently telling everyone to hold fire, doing that at all.  

Instead, they'd be hailing him as a genius, clamouring for an immediate extension to his contract. 

 

I'm not doubting that you can't fully judge him until next season, but Queens fans seem to be remarkably generous by writing off almost half a season. I think I'm right he'll get 16 (?) league games this season plus a couple of cup games, and were 7 or 8 points off the play-offs when he came in. It certainly wasn't a lost cause then and still isn't. A win next week and you are only 5 points behind us.

He's brought in some good players, particularly a goalie which was seemingly a major issue. Has the leagues top scorer and some other good players for the level (and some rubbish, admittedly). No doubt recruitment is the most important thing in this league, but there are numerous other factors which make a good manager and if there's no improvement over almost half a season, especially with some additions, then that's surely a question mark over him.

5 or 6 games is obviously not a big enough sample size, but by April there will have been enough to start forming an opinion. As you say if Queens go on a winning run he'll get credit for it, so to ignore poor results (if that were to continue to happen) seems generous.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Diamonds are Forever

[Manwithnoball]

So Bartley thinks we played reasonably well apart from the goals. Praises McKechnie, Todd, East & Brydon plus Hendrie for getting out of his sickbed. Then says Lewis has played too much football but brings him on as his first sub. Looked unsure what to say in interview when asked about Wilson. Instead again just said he is not up to the fitness standard as we seen last week. He can't help getting wee digs in about players. If he was not fit enough this week he definitely not fit enough last week. Poor decision by the manager then? Good to get Connelly back if Kabia is now injured. Season is well and truly done and Bartley will now have to rebuild our club in the summer. Interesting to see how that works out as I want to see improvement this season but feel we are no further forward.

[19QOS19]

54 minutes ago, Manwithnoball said:

So Bartley thinks we played reasonably well apart from the goals. Praises McKechnie, Todd, East & Brydon plus Hendrie for getting out of his sickbed. Then says Lewis has played too much football but brings him on as his first sub. Looked unsure what to say in interview when asked about Wilson. Instead again just said he is not up to the fitness standard as we seen last week. He can't help getting wee digs in about players. If he was not fit enough this week he definitely not fit enough last week. Poor decision by the manager then? Good to get Connelly back if Kabia is now injured. Season is well and truly done and Bartley will now have to rebuild our club in the summer. Interesting to see how that works out as I want to see improvement this season but feel we are no further forward.

Are you Gavin Reilly? You really seem to have some bizarre chip on your shoulder about Bartley. Yet again there was absolutely nothing controversial about that interview. 

I thought he was full of praise for the players this week and IMO it was fair. The effort was certainly there but we were beaten by a better side and two poor lapses of concentration yet again. He didn't look unsure about Wilson, he gave an answer and an answer that again seemed fair to me. If that's not the reason then do feel free to share. But if he never gave an answer you'd be complaining that he didn't tell us why Wilson didn't feature. 

[Distant Doonhamer]

I like Bartley and obviously hope he does well. I generally like the honesty of his interviews. He's in a fortunate position in that we aren't at any risk of going down and will be judged on how next season goes but as some have said it's not unreasonable to look for some improvement between now and the end of this season.

There was a really good interview on Football Focus this week with Paul Simpson who is again doing a fantastic job at Carlisle. He stated that no matter how "young coaches" talk about their vision for the club in reality it comes down to winning football matches. If you don't do that then you won't be around for the medium term never mind the long term. 

[Manwithnoball]

46 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Are you Gavin Reilly? You really seem to have some bizarre chip on your shoulder about Bartley. Yet again there was absolutely nothing controversial about that interview. 

I thought he was full of praise for the players this week and IMO it was fair. The effort was certainly there but we were beaten by a better side and two poor lapses of concentration yet again. He didn't look unsure about Wilson, he gave an answer and an answer that again seemed fair to me. If that's not the reason then do feel free to share. But if he never gave an answer you'd be complaining that he didn't tell us why Wilson didn't feature. 

All about opinions. No but I would have kept Reilly though. I will be watching as the season finishes to look for any progress.

[annan4eva]

2 hours ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

I like Bartley and obviously hope he does well. I generally like the honesty of his interviews. He's in a fortunate position in that we aren't at any risk of going down and will be judged on how next season goes but as some have said it's not unreasonable to look for some improvement between now and the end of this season.

There was a really good interview on Football Focus this week with Paul Simpson who is again doing a fantastic job at Carlisle. He stated that no matter how "young coaches" talk about their vision for the club in reality it comes down to winning football matches. If you don't do that then you won't be around for the medium term never mind the long term. 

You’re 100 % correct. Bartley is talking in riddles.

[Otis Blue]

9 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

I'm not doubting that you can't fully judge him until next season, but Queens fans seem to be remarkably generous by writing off almost half a season. I think I'm right he'll get 16 (?) league games this season plus a couple of cup games, and were 7 or 8 points off the play-offs when he came in. It certainly wasn't a lost cause then and still isn't. A win next week and you are only 5 points behind us.

He's brought in some good players, particularly a goalie which was seemingly a major issue. Has the leagues top scorer and some other good players for the level (and some rubbish, admittedly). No doubt recruitment is the most important thing in this league, but there are numerous other factors which make a good manager and if there's no improvement over almost half a season, especially with some additions, then that's surely a question mark over him.

5 or 6 games is obviously not a big enough sample size, but by April there will have been enough to start forming an opinion. As you say if Queens go on a winning run he'll get credit for it, so to ignore poor results (if that were to continue to happen) seems generous.

That's a pretty balanced post there DAF tbf. 

Only thing I'd be at odds with is the suggestion that Marvin should be able to coach our mob into significant improvement. In general you would think so, but if the players basically just don't have the necessary minimum quality then he's wasting his time. Sometimes you just have to hold up your hands and admit they're not up to the standard required.

[Manwithnoball]

2 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

Only thing I'd be at odds with is the suggestion that Marvin should be able to coach our mob into significant improvement. In general you would think so, but if the players basically just don't have the necessary minimum quality then he's wasting his time. Sometimes you just have to hold up your hands and admit they're not up to the standard required

Do you not think with 4 of his own players in as well there should be an improvement?

[HighlandQueen]

2 hours ago, Manwithnoball said:

Do you not think with 4 of his own players in as well there should be an improvement?

Just stop it. He inherited a terrible squad and even with 4 players not enough. Judge the guy on next year

[Manwithnoball]

16 minutes ago, HighlandQueen said:

Just stop it. He inherited a terrible squad and even with 4 players not enough. Judge the guy on next year

Okay if you say so. 

[Honky Tonk Man]

Not sure what people expect from Bartley here. It is clear that this squad has a number of players that frankly aren't good enough. Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Seems to be a very short term attitude on here from some folks.

I am not a Bartley happy clapper but we have to see what he does in summer and judge him from there. Anything else is pointless as it isn't his squad. 4 players do not make a squad. 

[jakeyman]

I vaguely remember a number of years ago a new manager taking over at a club who were by their standards going through a really poor period. In his first few games he made little difference and a number of disgruntled fans were wanting rid of him very early on, but the cub stood by him. That manager was Alex Ferguson at Manchester United. Before anyone says anything

I'm not suggesting Marvin Bartley is the same standard of manager, simply that it is to early to judge properly.

[Greenacres]

3 hours ago, Honky Tonk Man said:

Not sure what people expect from Bartley here. It is clear that this squad has a number of players that frankly aren't good enough. Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Seems to be a very short term attitude on here from some folks.

I am not a Bartley happy clapper but we have to see what he does in summer and judge him from there. Anything else is pointless as it isn't his squad. 4 players do not make a squad. 

4 players do not make a squad but surely you would expect a slight improvement when they all start like on Saturday if anything we look worse than when WG was manager .

For me his new signing are not much better than what we had .

Bartley like WG will be given the summer to get his own squad have to hope he does a better job .

Easy to sign  poor  players like Wullie did but as Bartley will find out very difficult  to sign quality players with our budget.

[Manwithnoball]

Fair play I have listened to everyone's point on giving Bartley the time. I will roll my neck in just now and wait and see what he brings to the club. He has connections hopefully he can use to allow us quality loans albeit I would imagine they would younger players. We have heard about his Dyce and Howe connections so that may lead to some youngsters from Newcastle or Everton if he is trusted by them. Recently has been so annoying as a fan and I would just like a better feeling around the place including on the park. We all know a lot of these players are not good enough to challenge at the top of this league but I thought with a new manager and some new signings we would improve a bit but not to be. At least Bartley can start planning for next season now as we know what league we are going to be in and we can stop thinking of getting to the play offs.

[annan4eva]

2 hours ago, jakeyman said:

I vaguely remember a number of years ago a new manager taking over at a club who were by their standards going through a really poor period. In his first few games he made little difference and a number of disgruntled fans were wanting rid of him very early on, but the cub stood by him. That manager was Alex Ferguson at Manchester United. Before anyone says anything

I'm not suggesting Marvin Bartley is the same standard of manager, simply that it is to early to judge properly.

You are exactly suggesting that Bartley is of that standard he’s had a very poor start>

[19QOS19]

2 hours ago, Manwithnoball said:

Fair play I have listened to everyone's point on giving Bartley the time. I will roll my neck in just now and wait and see what he brings to the club. He has connections hopefully he can use to allow us quality loans albeit I would imagine they would younger players. We have heard about his Dyce and Howe connections so that may lead to some youngsters from Newcastle or Everton if he is trusted by them. Recently has been so annoying as a fan and I would just like a better feeling around the place including on the park. We all know a lot of these players are not good enough to challenge at the top of this league but I thought with a new manager and some new signings we would improve a bit but not to be. At least Bartley can start planning for next season now as we know what league we are going to be in and we can stop thinking of getting to the play offs.

 

I think it has been refreshing since he's come in. He instantly identified the two biggest diddies in our side and got shot of them; something WG could have easily done but chose to stick with them for some bizarre reason. He sounds as though he has a clear vision for us going forward and the training sounds to be far more intense than under our previous managers. You can see in the warm ups that it's far better as well. It's little things the now but it's a step in the right direction. He won't get praise from certain sections until he starts to get results which is completely understandable. I just think it's mental that he's receiving such harsh criticism this early on. It's as if folk have forgotten how truly rank this group of players have been. 

 

7 minutes ago, annan4eva said:

You are exactly suggesting that Bartley is of that standard he’s had a very poor start>

No he isn't. Why are you bothered anyway? 

[Rjc-1988]

11 hours ago, Honky Tonk Man said:

Not sure what people expect from Bartley here. It is clear that this squad has a number of players that frankly aren't good enough. Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Seems to be a very short term attitude on here from some folks.

I am not a Bartley happy clapper but we have to see what he does in summer and judge him from there. Anything else is pointless as it isn't his squad. 4 players do not make a squad. 

To put the counter argument forward here - every time a Manager takes over a new post he inherits the squad that his predecessor assembled. As soon as the Manager signs on the dotted line he assumes immediate responsibility for the playing side and more importantly the results. His immediate job is to try and improve all aspects of footballing performance which hopefully should translate into better results. This notion being banded about that the season's over and we should suddenly "fast forward" to next season is ridiculous. We have 10 games to go and 30 points to play for. We have a FT squad of 25+ players in League 1 - there is absolutely no excuse for the results that are being churned out (previously under WG) and now under MB. We have literally failed to beat every team other than Peterhead, Clyde and Edinburgh (Montrose the solitary exception). MB is continuing with very similar formations to WG and a very similar playing style. A style of play incidentally that sees us languishing much closer to League 2 than the Championship. It is possible to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear - Dougie Imrie did it last season with Morton and there have been countless examples of Managers going into clubs and transforming performances and results in a very short period of time. 

[Monkey Tennis]

8 hours ago, jakeyman said:

In his first few games he made little difference and a number of disgruntled fans were wanting rid of him very early on, but the cub stood by him. That manager was Alex Ferguson at Manchester United. Before anyone says anything

If by "first few games" you mean first four years, then yes, the parallels are glaring.