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The Queen of the South thread


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4 hours ago, Greenacres said:

I would rather we went back to a good  grass pitch but that's  not going to happen .

Not a fan of artifical pitches but understand it makes sense  to hire out Palmy to try and make extra income.

I'm sure we were told that installing an artificial pitch would be  great source of income for the Club but it's since been mentioned that it's a very poor source, especially since Heston Rovers stopped using it. 

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Much as I dislike plastic, another advantage is that it mitigates fixture congestion. If players csn play regularly and avoid a run of x games in x days because of previous weather related cancellations, then that also has to be an advantage. There have been times when we've been one of the few games that are played in the league. This also helps cash flow. Plus I have seen some dreadful natural pitches.

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2 hours ago, Honky Tonk Man said:

Much as I dislike plastic, another advantage is that it mitigates fixture congestion. If players csn play regularly and avoid a run of x games in x days because of previous weather related cancellations, then that also has to be an advantage. There have been times when we've been one of the few games that are played in the league. This also helps cash flow. Plus I have seen some dreadful natural pitches.

Aye, People who complain about the "unnatural" bounce or roll of the ball on artificial surfaces often forget that the condition of grass pitches can change two or three times during a game if weather conditions change which also affects the run/bounce of the ball. It's a no brainer that a good, well maintained grass pitch is better than plastic, and I'd love to see one at Palmerston, but the upkeep would probably be too expensive. 

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I dont hate 3G pitches.

Ours is end of life and is showing its age. There's nothing particularly special about Raith's pitch, its just newer. When ours is renewed it'll be bdtter than theirs. Such is the nature of these things. Newer ones are better than older ones.

Is it not the case that the substructure of the Starks Park pitch gives more cushioning even if the actual top carpet is not particularly special? I'm sure in a previous discussion Raith fans said extra money had been spent on this. 

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10 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

Aye, People who complain about the "unnatural" bounce or roll of the ball on artificial surfaces often forget that the condition of grass pitches can change two or three times during a game if weather conditions change which also affects the run/bounce of the ball. It's a no brainer that a good, well maintained grass pitch is better than plastic, and I'd love to see one at Palmerston, but the upkeep would probably be too expensive. 

Is it not the case that the substructure of the Starks Park pitch gives more cushioning even if the actual top carpet is not particularly special? I'm sure in a previous discussion Raith fans said extra money had been spent on this. 

But on the other hand, how are teams like Arbroath and Brechin able to afford a very good grass pitch? 

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23 minutes ago, QoS99 said:

But on the other hand, how are teams like Arbroath and Brechin able to afford a very good grass pitch? 

Is Brechin's a good grass pitch, wasn't that great the last time I was there iirc. Not overusing the pitch could be your answer. Greenock Morton's pitch was always lauded a a good surface but it deteriated badly over the past few seasons because reserve and colt games were played there, not sure if its better now? I'm no Alan Titmarsh but I would say avoiding drainage problems will obviously help to maintain a good pitch but can be costly to rectify if they later develop. 

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20 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

Is Brechin's a good grass pitch, wasn't that great the last time I was there iirc. Not overusing the pitch could be your answer. Greenock Morton's pitch was always lauded a a good surface but it deteriated badly over the past few seasons because reserve and colt games were played there, not sure if its better now? I'm no Alan Titmarsh but I would say avoiding drainage problems will obviously help to maintain a good pitch but can be costly to rectify if they later develop. 

I think Brechin now do have a good pitch yeah, they post photos on twitter of the surface from a Birds Eye view and it looks decent

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2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I dont hate 3G pitches.

Ours is end of life and is showing its age. There's nothing particularly special about Raith's pitch, its just newer. When ours is renewed it'll be bdtter than theirs. Such is the nature of these things. Newer ones are better than older ones.

Are you sure Raith pitch is so much softer has more below it ours is like playing in the Arena Car Park .

I have not heard one complaint from any player about it or even Falkirk which has been down for a few years . 

More or less from the start players  have complained about  our pitch saying it is easily the worse they have played on.

This makes a change normally I moan about the players on the pitch.

 

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18 minutes ago, QoS99 said:

I think Brechin now do have a good pitch yeah, they post photos on twitter of the surface from a Birds Eye view and it looks decent

A  good plan by Brechin to spend money on a good pitch rather than players as they slipped down through the divisions. 

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1 hour ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

Is it not the case that the substructure of the Starks Park pitch gives more cushioning even if the actual top carpet is not particularly special? I'm sure in a previous discussion Raith fans said extra money had been spent on this. 

No.

And if it did it wouldnt be legal. There are fairly tight ranges of roll and bounce these pitches need to give to pass inspection. Raith paid extra to have green crumb instead of black for aesthetics, as we did originally though its been renewed over the years with black.

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4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Ours is end of life and is showing its age. There's nothing particularly special about Raith's pitch, its just newer. When ours is renewed it'll be better than theirs ...

So, I'd suggest that SD's post above ends the debate (at least about what the club intends to do) - our carpet pitch is now at the end of its life and it will be renewed - ie reading between the lines, we will not be returning to a grass pitch.  It is what it is and we move on.

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5 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I dont hate 3G pitches.

Ours is end of life and is showing its age. There's nothing particularly special about Raith's pitch, its just newer. When ours is renewed it'll be bdtter than theirs. Such is the nature of these things. Newer ones are better than older ones.

Is it still the plan when it is replaced to lay our old pitch at the kgv? Am sure that was said when we took over the kgv?

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1 hour ago, trotsky27 said:

Is it still the plan when it is replaced to lay our old pitch at the kgv? Am sure that was said when we took over the kgv?

I thought our original artificial pitch which was replaced after about 1 season had been re-laid at KGV, don't know it its the plan to replace it again when Palmerston is renewed.

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3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

No.

And if it did it wouldnt be legal. There are fairly tight ranges of roll and bounce these pitches need to give to pass inspection. Raith paid extra to have green crumb instead of black for aesthetics, as we did originally though its been renewed over the years with black.

I first went to Palmerston in the 70 s the park was a joy. My first night game was v Rotherham ( managed by Tommy Doc ) 

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Interestingly yesterday's match at Palmerston was called off due to the pitch being frozen, so while you would expect a plastic pitch to be "all-weather", having one is no guarantee that matches will not be postponed in the future.  Similarly the 3G pitches in the region at Newton Stewart, Kirkcudbright and Lockerbie seem to be susceptible to drainage/freezing issues and games are frequently called off or moved accordingly.

But...

...there's no way I'd like to see us having a grass surface that ends up similar to the one at Firhill last season which was a victim of overuse and possibly drainage issues due to being sited so close to the basin, so although my heart says grass my head says plastic - provided the plastic is affordably replaced with quality more frequently and not hung onto until the bitter end when it fails "the tests" like the present surface.

As FTB says above Heston no longer use the pitch on alternative Saturdays, can anyone enlighten me as to how much community (ie non-QOS) usage the pitch gets these days?

Finally, it breaks my heart that the three traditional grass pitches in the town from my youth - Kingholm, The Holm & Jock's - are all now virtually unusable no doubt down to drainage through location in part (but they have always had that issue) but also to a larger extent the council's failure to maintain them - even basics like cutting the grass!  Speaking of the past I miss orange balls and pitches which are half bathed in sunshine and half white with frost!

Edited by Slipmat
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20 hours ago, the_palmy_pie said:

Players and supporters alike absolutely hate these pitches. It’s time for change.. 

A fortune to plough a small area of land sew wait and prepare ? The world is madder than i thought 

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As you will hopefully see next week we have one of the best grass surfaces in the country. Like the team we have one part-time groundsman looking after it he is a greenkeeper at a local golf course & knows his stuff. Think there is a bit more outlay pre-season to get it in good order and we have not had many postponements over the years. Have to say the pitch is not used for other games very often & with us being part time not used for training on. Apart from the wind we sometimes get think most players enjoy our park. 

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2 hours ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

I thought our original artificial pitch which was replaced after about 1 season had been re-laid at KGV, don't know it its the plan to replace it again when Palmerston is renewed.

No. KGV has never had a 3G pitch. It's a 2G hockey pitch. The original pitch from Palmerston was taken away by the manufacturers for testing on why parts of it had become flat I think.

1 hour ago, Slipmat said:

Interestingly yesterday's match at Palmerston was called off due to the pitch being frozen, so while you would expect a plastic pitch to be "all-weather", having one is no guarantee that matches will not be postponed in the future.  Similarly the 3G pitches in the region at Newton Stewart, Kirkcudbright and Lockerbie seem to be susceptible to drainage/freezing issues and games are frequently called off or moved accordingly.

All things are relative. In reality nobody made any effort to get yesterday's game on as far as I know. If we'd been due to be at home it would likely have been on. Dalbeattie moved their game to Palmerston when it became obvious Islecroft would be frozen and Palmerston was available but it was a relatively late move. The pitches are good to about -4C or thereabouts in theory but the crumb needs to be brushed if it's frozen to get it moving. If Annan was playable yesterday I imagine Palmerston could have been. We've got it playable in colder weather than Saturday was.

We've partly been fortunate with the timing of the coldest weather but I don't think we've lost a first team game to frost completely since it went to 3G i n 2012 (there was one abandoned at half time bizarrely against Dundee United of course).

That said, they aren't "all weather' and if it's cold enough or has enough snow on it then the game will be off, as pitches were all over the country a couple of weeks before Xmas (when our home game with Kelty got the go ahead after an inspection). Even much newer pitches like Hamilton were unplayable that day and Palmerston definitely was unplayable the night before. It had been -7C for much of that week though.

Edited by Skyline Drifter
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1 hour ago, Slipmat said:

Interestingly yesterday's match at Palmerston was called off due to the pitch being frozen, so while you would expect a plastic pitch to be "all-weather", having one is no guarantee that matches will not be postponed in the future.  Similarly the 3G pitches in the region at Newton Stewart, Kirkcudbright and Lockerbie seem to be susceptible to drainage/freezing issues and games are frequently called off or moved accordingly.

But...

...there's no way I'd like to see us having a grass surface that ends up similar to the one at Firhill last season which was a victim of overuse and possibly drainage issues due to being sited so close to the basin, so although my heart says grass my head says plastic - provided the plastic is affordably replaced with quality more frequently and not hung onto until the bitter end when it fails "the tests" like the present surface.

As FTB says above Heston no longer use the pitch on alternative Saturdays, can anyone enlighten me as to how much community (ie non-QOS) usage the pitch gets these days?

Finally, it breaks my heart that the three traditional grass pitches in the town from my youth - Kingholm, The Holm & Jock's - are all now virtually unusable no doubt down to drainage through location in part (but they have always had that issue) but also to a larger extent the council's failure to maintain them - even basics like cutting the grass!  Speaking of the past I miss orange balls and pitches which are half bathed in sunshine and half white with frost!

In a past life I used to be involved in meetings with the Council's Leisure and Recreation Committee and the local Amateur Leagues. We had a job to get the Council to start even lining pitches never mind spend much on maintenance. Back then Leisure and Recreation was bottom of the pecking order for finance with football lowest of all. The number of "all-weather" pitches at that time in Dumfries was one (KGV), since then more have been built in the area, and with floodlights, which means that more games can be played in a day or night so grass pitches are less likely to be hired. 

 

 

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