The Queen of the South thread

[qos_75]

8 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that Sir David Attenborough has plans to do a "Green Planet" documentary based around the life-forms forming the ecosystems of the magnificent Palmerston main stand roof ... so we shouldn't rush into demolishing it - for all we know it could soon become a listed building!

I did think about the green benefit of the moss. Maybe we could get some sort of grant to maintain it.

Mind you, if we keep the stand much longer it is more likely to be a ‘listing building’  rather than a listed building. 

Maybe the council will step in like they did with that flat on English Street. Mind you, council’s track record of maintaining things about the town is horrendous. It makes the Queens board maintenance activity look proactive in comparison.

[Homer Thompson]

46 minutes ago, Flash said:

It would be cheaper to just buy the two hooses.

That would be my plan if I won the lottery! 

[qos_75]

14 minutes ago, Homer Thompson said:

That would be my plan if I won the lottery! 

Or buy Park Farm and build a new stadium with training and corporate facilities. I think you might need a few Euro Millions winners to club together for that though. 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, Otis Blue said:

 

Back on topic regarding replacement of the old (largely wooden) main stand - as @Homer Thompson has pointed out, the housing at the Terregles end would prevent installation of a new stand similar in design to the East stand.  So one option would be (if the club owns the ground behind the Portland Rd terrace ... knock down the Portland Rd terrace (which is too big anyway - although great when it is full - which is once in a blue moon now) and move the pitch North until a new stand could be  built to run the length (or almost the length) of the West side.  At the same time demolish the "surplus" South end of the East stand and maybe extend it North to the new end of the pitch.  I'd then replace the two end terraces with new smaller covered terracing at each end.  I think what we need is probably only around 4,000 seats (max) with two end terraces of around 1,000 capacity each.  So a 6,000 capacity stadium would more than suffice.  Just a pipedream though.

That's an awful lot of bother to go to, in the name of getting a longer main stand.

Palmerston's greatest asset by a mile is the Portland Road end.  Any plans that required its demolition when the league body no longer has ludicrous ground criteria, would be madness. 

I'd rather that any new stand was set high again.  How far it runs along the side, would not trouble me.  

I've been delighted to see Terregles Street back in use, but it really does need fixing and tidying. 

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, qos_75 said:

Or buy Park Farm and build a new stadium with training and corporate facilities. I think you might need a few Euro Millions winners to club together for that though. 

I'd genuinely hate it if we moved to a new ground.

If it had good corporate facilities, that would be even worse.

[qos_75]

10 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'd genuinely hate it if we moved to a new ground.

If it had good corporate facilities, that would be even worse.

Don’t worry it is a pipe dream MT and isn’t going to happen.

Mind you, I don’t think having better corporate facilities is a bad idea, even at Palmerston.

 If the club can generate more money with a higher corporate capacity and standard of hospitality etc it isn't to be sniffed at. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by qos_75

[Otis Blue]

15 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's an awful lot of bother to go to, in the name of getting a longer main stand.

Palmerston's greatest asset by a mile is the Portland Road end.  Any plans that required its demolition when the league body no longer has ludicrous ground criteria, would be madness. 

I'd rather that any new stand was set high again.  How far it runs along the side, would not trouble me.  

I've been delighted to see Terregles Street back in use, but it really does need fixing and tidying. 

I've loved the big Portland Rd terrace over the years; its been great for the big cup ties (been in it with 18,000 in the ground v Rangers centuries ago when wee Rabbie was still an exciseman in the Toon) and as you say its an iconic feature of Palmerston, but nowadays it generally lacks atmosphere being so sparsely populated which is a depressing sight.  For me its just too big now and the rake is too shallow (steeper stands/terraces are the best for views/atmosphere etc - ie Tynecastle; being the best example).

Now granted this is only daydreaming but for me (if the bucks were available - which they aren't) - I'd move the pitch North by 20 yards and have smaller capacity (and steeper angled) covered terraces at each end.  This would also enable a consistent height of terrace across the Terregles end (instead of tapered height).  Like you, I'm not precious about stands along the sides which would be full length either - from 18 yard line to 18 yard line would be fine.  That would provide a stadium fit for purpose which wouldn't lack atmosphere on normal match days, and which would still generate a cracking atmosphere for big matches - especially with a covered terrace at each end.  Plus it would provide space for decent modern welfare facilities behind the "new" Terregles terrace.  I don't believe in the modern era that Queens need an 8,500 capacity stadium anymore, which rarely contains more than 1,500 and lacks atmosphere because of that.

Oh, and while I'm at it - any redevelopment must include 4 x sexy floodlight pylons, and not those on modern galvanised poles.  Fitba grounds need to have sexy floodlight pylons, period!

Also, remember that "buying the hooses" requires the owners wanting to sell/move in the first place.

PS - hopefully filling a gap here as there's feck all else to talk about at the moment (waiting on any more signing news) ...

[Otis Blue]

1 hour ago, Flash said:

It would be cheaper to just buy the two hooses.

Aye true ... but we're daydreaming here - nae harm in that whilst the fitba's on the back burner and we're all bored stiff, eh?

[Homer Thompson]

48 minutes ago, qos_75 said:

Or buy Park Farm and build a new stadium with training and corporate facilities. I think you might need a few Euro Millions winners to club together for that though. 

I've thought a few times about other locations where a stadium could be built. Im not a fan of out of town stadiums, so somewhere in the town but I cant really think of anywhere! 

[QosLoyal]

The terrace is iconic. Not a chance i'd ever want rid of it.

[qos_75]

5 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

 

Also, remember that "buying the hooses" requires the owners wanting to sell/move in the first place.

Unless you are Liverpool FC, when you can use your leverage to get the council to issue compulsory purchase orders. 

Queens and D&G Council have the leverage of an over ripe banana. I am sure the owners of the houses would piss themselves laughing at any attempt to buy them out. 

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

I've loved the big Portland Rd terrace over the years; its been great for the big cup ties (been in it with 18,000 in the ground v Rangers centuries ago when wee Rabbie was still an exciseman in the Toon) and as you say its an iconic feature of Palmerston, but nowadays it generally lacks atmosphere being so sparsely populated which is a depressing sight.  For me its just too big now and the rake is too shallow (steeper stands/terraces are the best for views/atmosphere etc - ie Tynecastle; being the best example).

Now granted this is only daydreaming but for me (if the bucks were available - which they aren't) - I'd move the pitch North by 20 yards and have smaller capacity (and steeper angled) covered terraces at each end.  This would also enable a consistent height of terrace across the Terregles end (instead of tapered height).  Like you, I'm not precious about stands along the sides which would be full length either - from 18 yard line to 18 yard line would be fine.  That would provide a stadium fit for purpose which wouldn't lack atmosphere on normal match days, and which would still generate a cracking atmosphere for big matches - especially with a covered terrace at each end.  Plus it would provide space for decent modern welfare facilities behind the "new" Terregles terrace.  I don't believe in the modern era that Queens need an 8,500 capacity stadium anymore, which rarely contains more than 1,500 and lacks atmosphere because of that.

Oh, and while I'm at it - any redevelopment must include 4 x sexy floodlight pylons, and not those on modern galvanised poles.  Fitba grounds need to have sexy floodlight pylons, period!

Also, remember that "buying the hooses" requires the owners wanting to sell/move in the first place.

PS - hopefully filling a gap here as there's feck all else to talk about at the moment (waiting on any more signing news) ...

I know none of it's happening and we're just jibbering in the absence of football, but there's no way new steep terracing would be built anywhere.  If we were ever to move, either by fifty yards or by a few miles across town, we'd end up with some Lego nonsense with a maximum of three sides, probably just two.

Good shout on the floodlights though.  Ours are beautiful and are another great reason why we shouldn't be looking at changes to our ground that are too wholesale.  It does need tarting up though.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Monkey Tennis

[Greenacres]

Palmerston just needs a tidy up for now next big job is getting a new pitch for next season.

Back to the football could really do with a update from Wullie on how training is going and everything else from adding to his staff and more new signing.

 

 

[Guest Flash]

2 hours ago, qos_75 said:

Unless you are Liverpool FC, when you can use your leverage to get the council to issue compulsory purchase orders. 

Queens and D&G Council have the leverage of an over ripe banana. I am sure the owners of the houses would piss themselves laughing at any attempt to buy them out. 

I wasn’t being entirely serious but everybody has their price. If the alternative was demolishing half the stadium and moving everything 20 yards north, the cost of that would be enormous. So, if the budget was available for that, even if you had to offer the residents well over the odds to move, it would still work out considerably less expensive than shifting the whole stadium.
In any case, you could replace the stand with one that ran from the south part of the existing one to the corner in the north. Even if it was the same height, it would be able to hold about 2,000. You could then leave the rest of the ground as it is after repairing it, obviously. A cover on the Terregles St end would be the only thing I’d change.
I don’t think the capacity should be reduced at all. I think you should always have as big a stadium as you can afford because you never know what could happen in the future. I get that the atmosphere is rubbish. But low crowds in a 6,000 capacity would produce just as poor an atmosphere. The solution to having poor crowds isn’t to reduce the capacity, it should be to try to improve everything so that more people want to go. 
Anyway, any changes are pie in the sky when even a coat of paint appears to be out of the question.

[Otis Blue]

2 hours ago, QosLoyal said:

The terrace is iconic. Not a chance i'd ever want rid of it.

I used to think that too, but it's rarely more than 20% full nowadays. Put the same attendance in a smaller modern terrace with a slightly steeper slope (better view) with proper safety barriers and a full cover roof and you'd generate more atmosphere in normal games.

I'd certainly not have seating behind the goals - not a fan of all-seater grounds at our level ... nor do I like modern Lego stadia.

[queenslad]

31 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

I used to think that too, but it's rarely more than 20% full nowadays. Put the same attendance in a smaller modern terrace with a slightly steeper slope (better view) with proper safety barriers and a full cover roof and you'd generate more atmosphere in normal games.

I'd certainly not have seating behind the goals - not a fan of all-seater grounds at our level ... nor do I like modern Lego stadia.

Close the terrace completely and put everyone into the two existing stands

[QoS99]

23 minutes ago, queenslad said:

Close the terrace completely and put everyone into the two existing stands

Terrible take

[Dougie Mills]

1 hour ago, queenslad said:

Close the terrace completely and put everyone into the two existing stands

Well that sounds awful!

[Otis Blue]

15 hours ago, Homer Thompson said:

I've thought a few times about other locations where a stadium could be built. Im not a fan of out of town stadiums, so somewhere in the town but I cant really think of anywhere! 

Agreed, any stadium should be as near a town centre as possible and not stuck out on the fringes of the town on some sterile remote business park which requires a car to drive to or public transport.  Fans (especially away fans) should have the option of enjoying a town centre and its bars/eateries before a game - adds to the atmosphere!  One of Palmerston's more unique attractions is that its close to the town centre and I'd hope we'd always keep that if possible.

I also think that stadia at our level should be a mix of terrace and seating.  A covered end terrace suits the young teams (home and away fans) who can sing and make a lot of noise, add a bit of passion etc.  Seating along the sides is good for those want a good view of both halves and obviously suits families and older fans (guilty as charged).

12 hours ago, Flash said:

I wasn’t being entirely serious but everybody has their price. If the alternative was demolishing half the stadium and moving everything 20 yards north, the cost of that would be enormous. So, if the budget was available for that, even if you had to offer the residents well over the odds to move, it would still work out considerably less expensive than shifting the whole stadium.
In any case, you could replace the stand with one that ran from the south part of the existing one to the corner in the north. Even if it was the same height, it would be able to hold about 2,000. You could then leave the rest of the ground as it is after repairing it, obviously. A cover on the Terregles St end would be the only thing I’d change.
I don’t think the capacity should be reduced at all. I think you should always have as big a stadium as you can afford because you never know what could happen in the future. I get that the atmosphere is rubbish. But low crowds in a 6,000 capacity would produce just as poor an atmosphere. The solution to having poor crowds isn’t to reduce the capacity, it should be to try to improve everything so that more people want to go. 
Anyway, any changes are pie in the sky when even a coat of paint appears to be out of the question.

Everybody has their price - well, yes, probably.  But you could be faced with someone who loves their long-term family home and simply doesn't want to move away.  Purchasing the houses to make way for a new west stand would no doubt be the most cost-effective solution, granted.

Yes, the cost of moving the whole thing north by 20/30 yards would be very expensive.  But I'm doing some blue-sky thinking here on the basis that we'd have oodles of cash or a rich (stupid) benefactor who would free-issue the dosh - ain't gonna happen we all know, unless I (or some eejit like me) win EuroMillions (which I don't do)!  That said, if someone asked me to take a sheet of paper and figure out how to redevelop Palmy in an aesthetically pleasing/symmetrical and modern (with decent facilities) way whilst keeping the location the same, then that's what I'd do - move it north by 20 yards or so - to get clear of the existing houses on the south-west corner and at the same time to get the space to have a proper equal height Terregles St terrace which is covered and complete with space for food kiosk and decent toilets, safe exit stairs, turnstiles etc.

Re the capacity - I think the ideal solution is a combination of both things: (a) improve the product on the park (not hard) so that the core support improves, but also (b) have a stadium that isn't overly large.  A crowd of circa 2,000 in a stadium with a capacity of 8,500 will make less atmosphere than a crowd of 2,000 in a stadium with a capacity of 6,000 - especially if the end terraces are relatively small and covered to aid the generation of noise.  I've loved the Portland Rd end over the years but just think its past its sell-by date.  It's too big, underpopulated and lacks basic facilities.  Yes, its nice to say that we have the largest remaining covered terrace in Scotland (I think) but times move on.

Without checking, I can only recall a handful of matches in the last 20 years where we have had a crowd of around 6,000 in our 8,500 capacity stadium, and of those only about two were mainly QOS supports (the 2002 title winning game v Morton, where there were only around 200 away fans and the Cup Quarter Final with Dundee where the Dees brought about 2,000).  So I just don't see the need for a larger 8,500 ground capacity.  I feel sorry for clubs having to play in soul-less overly large and mostly empty stadiums.

[the_palmy_pie]

Still find it mad that we’ve not seen any official photographs of new players signing or from our preseason training etc. 

Doesn’t seem to be an issue with every other club including our local amateur teams