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How will you vote in our democratically mandated indyref 2 - 19/10/2023 (compared to 2014)


Should Scotland be an independent country?   

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I voted Yes in 2014 and I'd vote Yes again if there's a referendum next year, although I'm not convinced there will be.

I have my doubts that independence will improve life in this country to any great degree, especially the Growth Commission bullshit, but the system in the UK is utterly broken and no one is in the slightest bit interested in trying to fix it. 

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23 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

It's not identical but the EU are usually pretty pragmatic about sorting out tailored arrangements. Liechtenstein's another example, full members of both the Swiss and EU single markets.

Again it's far from like-for-like as Liechtenstein has no border with the EU (although Switzerland is in Schengen so... kinda does?) 
 

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17 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

People rightly want to find out more, not just of what we're being sold, but actually the nuts and bolts of what it would entail. Month on month, year after year for hard working families and communities up and down the country.

Bit exclusionary m8 :P. Nobody can tell you what will happen month after month, year after year if we stay in the UK. The SG is going to put out more papers in the coming months explaining how they intend to approach the currency issue etc, but they can't give month by month and year by year guarantees on what will happen, nobody could. You've also got the factor that nearly everything will depend on negotiation, if Westminster behaves out of their own self interest the transition could be relatively seamless, if they go all spiteful like a bunny boiling ex it could get a bit bumpy for a while.  

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38 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

I'm yet to be convinced that we, as an independent country, could financially make this dream actually work.

I love the romanticism and patriotism of being an independent country but remember back to 2014 when oil reserves were a huge selling point for a yes vote? They would sustain us for years to come. That proved to be a massive white elephant. We can't afford to leave and find we can't actually sustain ourselves.

For me, there's still far too many huge question marks over a number of important matters to just glibly and blindly say yes.

 

14 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

You can see how much of a struggle things are for people currently, becoming "poorer" isnt really an option.

People rightly want to find out more, not just of what we're being sold, but actually the nuts and bolts of what it would entail. Month on month, year after year for hard working families and communities up and down the country.

My biggest fear is that the SNP smell the hint of victory and winning is the sole aim. Quite how we sustain or manage it seems to be too far down the list of priorities.

Sell the dream to people with cold, hard facts. No hyperbole, spin or anti UK sentiment.

I’ll try to find the clip & post it, it’s our Scottish Secretary of State (I think), using “we” to describe all the things the rUK would miss out on if Scotland were to leave. Maybe someone else can assist? 
I understand people having trepidation over finances, but would urge you to do some research, look at the resources Scotland has, look at our tax take per capita, exports are skewed due to the way the figures are collated, but are still favourable. There are no certainties, however, I’d be very shocked if Scotland turned out to be worse off, after the initial few years. 
The biggest thing is….. if it’s not going well, we can change it. At present we are dependent on the English electorate thinking the same way as us! 

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7 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Again it's far from like-for-like as Liechtenstein has no border with the EU (although Switzerland is in Schengen so... kinda does?) 
 

Lichtenstein borders Austria does it not?

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6 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Again it's far from like-for-like as Liechtenstein has no border with the EU (although Switzerland is in Schengen so... kinda does?) 
 

It's got a border with Austria too. The negotiations got a bit complex, I think eventually it came down to "fuckit, what's the worst that could happen".

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1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

It's got a border with Austria too. The negotiations got a bit complex, I think eventually it came down to "fuckit, what's the worst that could happen".

If only Brexit negotiations went like that.

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I will be voting yes, just that I believe we should manage our own affairs. Its as simple as that for me. As much as I think it will be a good thing for us in the long term. I also think it will be the same for England and in long term they will prosper from it as much as us

Edited by BigDoddyKane
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2 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

f**k. Yer right. I always thought it was entirely within Switzerland.

Every day's a school day

I only knew because of Falkirk's mighty European adventure! There's no airport so folk were coming in to Vaduz in cars and buses from multiple directions.

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1 minute ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I will be voting yes, just that I believe we should manage our own affairs. Its as simple as that for me. As much as I think it will be a good thing for us in the long term. I also think it will be the same for England and in long term they will prosper from it as much as us

I hope they do, I’ve nothing against England or indeed, most of the English. I just think we are headed in different directions & now would be a good time to part ways amicably. If we are dragged further to the right & forced to become more insular, things could become ugly. I hope not, but it’s guaranteed it won’t,  if we are independent. Vote Yes folks. 

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2 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

I hope they do, I’ve nothing against England or indeed, most of the English. I just think we are headed in different directions & now would be a good time to part ways amicably. If we are dragged further to the right & forced to become more insular, things could become ugly. I hope not, but it’s guaranteed it won’t,  if we are independent. Vote Yes folks. 

I have thought for a while now that the union weighs them down just as much as it does us

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5 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I have thought for a while now that the union weighs them down just as much as it does us

It’s not a Union now, it’s good old colonialism. If it were a union. Either party could withdraw. Meanwhile, our democratically elected government has to go cap in hand to Westminster begging for a S30!  

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4 hours ago, G51 said:

Greater power to achieve what?

I would far rather devolve power to local regions and affect real change in communities than have a very tiny influence in the shaping of global/continental policy.

The EU will always do what is right for France and Germany. It doesn't give a f*ck about anyone else.

I can only assume that you've never visited Poland, Slovakia, Portugal, Spain or any of the Baltic nations....

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5 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

I can only assume that you've never visited Poland, Slovakia, Portugal, Spain or any of the Baltic nations....

I think from my experience a lot of those countries you list, while pro EU they do feel that Germany and France have too big a say, particulary Germany

Edited by BigDoddyKane
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22 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I only knew because of Falkirk's mighty European adventure! There's no airport so folk were coming in to Vaduz in cars and buses from multiple directions.

God, that brings back memories.

Stayed in Zurich and bussed to Vaduz.

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I'd vote Yes obvs. However I fully expect another episode of traditionally Scottish bed-shitting, but probably 48-52 this time. I expect the whole issue to be canned after that. If Yes can't win a referendum in the face of one of the most corrupt, venal Tory PMs and governments in decades, there's no point in ever holding another one.

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2 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I think from my experience a lot of those countries you list, while pro EU they do feel that Germany and France have too big a say, particulary Germany

Yes, but I was meaning from how they've all benefited massively from EU cash and the associated regeneration and being part of the single market.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

I'd vote Yes obvs. However I fully expect another episode of traditionally Scottish bed-shitting, but probably 48-52 this time. I expect the whole issue to be canned after that. If Yes can't win a referendum in the face of one of the most corrupt, venal Tory PMs and governments in decades, there's no point in ever holding another one.

Not only that, but if we meekly endorse having Brexit inflicted on us against our will, any pretensions to nationhood can get in the bin.

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