The years of discontent, 2022/23

[hk blues]

1 minute ago, GTG_03 said:

I don't know anyone who does this, what would happen if you got injured/killed at work and it was outwith your scheduled hours. Do you think your employer would honour any payments insurance wise? "But it's a common understanding that we work additional hours, your honour" probably wouldn't hold up in court. Seems to me that folk accepting that are leaving themselves open/being taken advantage of.  If additional hours may be required then they should be paid as overtime. The closest thing I've seen to this is having every second saturday morning written into a contract but even then it stated the amount of hours and the times expected to work.

No, my former colleague was just trying to climb the ladder. It's a large company I work for and we really are just numbers which he found out when he was told he was surplus to requirements. 

In my previous jobs, like many salaried ones, it was both implicit and explicit that additional hours were both required and expected and that these were prepaid in the salary.  There is no insurance or liability issue on this basis.  I would imagine for the majority of managerial positions this is the norm.  Nobody is being taken advantage of, the rules of the game are clear to all before the game starts. 

Again, your colleague was a fanny, not everyone who works additional hours is.  

 

 

[coprolite]

1 minute ago, hk blues said:

In my previous jobs, like many salaried ones, it was both implicit and explicit that additional hours were both required and expected and that these were prepaid in the salary.  There is no insurance or liability issue on this basis.  I would imagine for the majority of managerial positions this is the norm.  Nobody is being taken advantage of, the rules of the game are clear to all before the game starts. 

Again, your colleague was a fanny, not everyone who works additional hours is.  

 

 

Pretty sure my contract says a minimum af 37.5 hours plus reasonable requests as and when required. 

[GTG_03]

5 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Putting hours for no extra pay doesn't mean there's no reward for it. 

I wouldn’t put extra in just to get through more day job, except where there's peaks and troughs and i know fine i'll get the time back. 

But if something comes up that's an opportunity to do what i want to be doing and shape my role how i want i'll happily put in extra. 

Even if it doesn't lead to promotion or pay rises, it still leads to more opportunities for more interesting work and makes 1/2 of my waking weekday less shit. 

It's not something I would do personally but if it works for you and gets you through the week and opens opportunities then fair enough. 

3 minutes ago, Aufc said:

 

Yeah my salary is pretty good so i dont mind working the extra hours. Plus, as i said, i then get a lot of flexibility in what i do. So it works both ways. As someone says above, working these extra hours doesnt always relate to an immediate financial benefit. Surely if you are wanting paid for every hour you work then what happens if you have to take an afternoon off for an appointment? I am not talking about working weekends. I just come in earlier than im supposed to as it also means i dont get bugged by phone calls. 

With my team, i dont expect/want them to work extra and happy for them to work their contracted hours. However, i expect a bit of give and take whereby if they need to fu*k off for some appointment then i would hope they, at least, look like they are making the time up.

 

 

It's different for me as I work all over. If I was in the office though I think it'd be reasonable to say "I have an appointment next wednesday at 3pm, can I leave 2 hours early and come in/stay late an hour on Thursday and Friday?" There's no need to be working 10 additional hours just to get a tiny bit of flexibility back from work.

For the highlighted part, absolutely I'm wanting paid for every hour I work.

 

[GTG_03]

3 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Pretty sure my contract says a minimum af 37.5 hours plus reasonable requests as and when required. 

'Reasonable requests' is subjective which is pretty much my point. If employers aren't putting in overtime rates then it's because they know they can get chumps people to work extra for nothing.

[GTG_03]

10 minutes ago, hk blues said:

In my previous jobs, like many salaried ones, it was both implicit and explicit that additional hours were both required and expected and that these were prepaid in the salary.  There is no insurance or liability issue on this basis.  I would imagine for the majority of managerial positions this is the norm.  Nobody is being taken advantage of, the rules of the game are clear to all before the game starts. 

Again, your colleague was a fanny, not everyone who works additional hours is.  

 

 

I'm not saying that everyone is a fanny, I do think though that folk in these situations are being taken advantage of. I would never sign up for a contract that states an unknown amount of extra work is expected. The employer is writing the rules and they're not going to be writing rules that benefit the employee over themselves.

[coprolite]

4 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

'Reasonable requests' is subjective which is pretty much my point. If employers aren't putting in overtime rates then it's because they know they can get chumps people to work extra for nothing.

If i wanted overtime i'd have to work in a different sector and i don't really have transferable skills. 

But if i'm contracted and paid for reasonable full time hours then i'm not not getting paid. It's just that my hourly rate isn't always the same. 

[hk blues]

Just now, GTG_03 said:

I'm not saying that everyone is a fanny, I do think though that folk in these situations are being taken advantage of. I would never sign up for a contract that states an unknown amount of extra work is expected. The employer is writing the rules and they're not going to be writing rules that benefit the employee over themselves.

Again, nobody is being taken advantage of though.  It's all about give and take and if anyone feels they are giving more than they are taking then they can take it up with their company or move on - plenty do and that's the way employment works.  

[GTG_03]

10 minutes ago, coprolite said:

If i wanted overtime i'd have to work in a different sector and i don't really have transferable skills. 

But if i'm contracted and paid for reasonable full time hours then i'm not not getting paid. It's just that my hourly rate isn't always the same. 

That's one way to look at it. Getting paid the same every week for varying hours, I couldn't imagine going into work and at some point during the day I'm told that I'm expected to work a couple hours late tonight. Sounds awful tbh but each to their own.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

51 minutes ago, coprolite said:

If you earn over & 150,000 you'll pay 48% marginal tax and NI (with a lower average rate) in Scotland. 

Are you including pensions, student loan repayments and child benefit clawback? 

Marginal Rate is 53% over £43,663. Only comes down once you reach the top NI threshold which is over £50k.

[GTG_03]

12 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Again, nobody is being taken advantage of though.  It's all about give and take and if anyone feels they are giving more than they are taking then they can take it up with their company or move on - plenty do and that's the way employment works.  

I understand the give and take bit but I see no reason whatsoever that overtime can't be written into a proper contract rather than some vague expectation of additional hours as and when suits. It may be that I've been working for a big company with management that don't even know my name and would have me working every hour of the day if they could get away with it that makes me think like this. It just seems too open to abuse for my liking.

[hk blues]

Just now, GTG_03 said:

I understand the give and take bit but I see no reason whatsoever that overtime can't be written into a proper contract rather than some vague expectation of additional hours as and when suits. It may be that I've been working for a big company with management that don't even know my name and would have me working every hour of the day if they could get away with it that makes me think like this. It just seems too open to abuse for my liking.

It's not written in because it's by nature ad-hoc. As I said (numerous times) it's totally the norm once you reach a certain position/level in a company and if you're not up for it then you wouldn't accept the job.  I get it that from a certain perspective it seems open to abuse but in reality if and when it gets to that folk move on.  It's down to feeling you are being fairly rewarded for your efforts. That's true for all of us regardless of being paid for overtime or not.  

 

[coprolite]

19 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

Marginal Rate is 53% over £43,663. Only comes down once you reach the top NI threshold which is over £50k.

I didn't realise Scotland had different bands as well as rates. That's a fucking shambles tbh. 

[coprolite]

24 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

That's one way to look at it. Getting paid the same every week for varying hours, I couldn't imagine going into work and at some point during the day I'm told that I'm expected to work a couple hours late tonight. Sounds awful tbh but each to their own.

It's sometimes worse than a couple of hours, but there's no one telling me anything. 

If something comes in and i don't want to do it i just say "no". 

[Todd_is_God]

34 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

Marginal Rate is 53% over £43,663. Only comes down once you reach the top NI threshold which is over £50k.

53% on earnings over £43,663 is not the same as 53% of your salary, though, which i'm fairly certain was the statement made that kicked off this conversation.

[coprolite]

4 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

53% on earnings over £43,663 is not the same as 53% of your salary, though, which i'm fairly certain was the statement made that kicked off this conversation.

Someone said they were getting 51.2% of their pay rise. What ypu say is right, it is not the average but I think using the marginal rate on a payrise is fair enough. 

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

4 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

53% on earnings over £43,663 is not the same as 53% of your salary, though, which i'm fairly certain was the statement made that kicked off this conversation.

I think it's a fair assumption that he was meaning his marginal rate.

[GTG_03]

46 minutes ago, coprolite said:

It's sometimes worse than a couple of hours, but there's no one telling me anything. 

If something comes in and i don't want to do it i just say "no". 

Seems a strange set up. Additional hours are expected but you can also say no if you can't be arsed. *Shrugs*

[coprolite]

Just now, GTG_03 said:

Seems a strange set up. Additional hours are expected but you can also say no if you can't be arsed. *Shrugs*

I’d find a better excuse than “can’t be arsed” although that is often the truth

[GTG_03]

Just now, coprolite said:

I’d find a better excuse than “can’t be arsed” although that is often the truth

Sensible.

I was asked by a previous manager to come in for a meeting once(during my time at home). I just said no and gave no reason, he asked if I had something on that would prevent me coming in and again I said no. 

It didn't go down very well but if I'm not getting paid then I'm not going in. 

[Aufc]

2 hours ago, GTG_03 said:

It's not something I would do personally but if it works for you and gets you through the week and opens opportunities then fair enough. 

It's different for me as I work all over. If I was in the office though I think it'd be reasonable to say "I have an appointment next wednesday at 3pm, can I leave 2 hours early and come in/stay late an hour on Thursday and Friday?" There's no need to be working 10 additional hours just to get a tiny bit of flexibility back from work.

For the highlighted part, absolutely I'm wanting paid for every hour I work.

 

I get quite a lot of flexibility plus I’m not missing out on much as I don’t do anything in the morning anyways and I always leave at 5pm. Plus it’s resulted in me getting promoted from April