The years of discontent, 2022/23

[Billy Jean King]

So the new offer to the NHS staff is odd.
£35 million has been found from somewhere but instead of being offered to those at the bottom of the earning ladder it's been directed at those in the middle wage bracket for reasons best known to Humza.
 

There is ALWAYS more money as was being pointed out to you each time you repeated the SG line there wasn't.

Looks like it's all kicking off in the rest of the UK ironically going by this morning's news.

[Billy Jean King]

If you think that a pay rise of £2200 is more than a pay rise of £2600 then there's literally nothing I can do to help you.
Youtube has some great videos on basic arithmetic for absolute beginners.
I'd start there.

You do realise how a pay scale works ?

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

There is ALWAYS more money as was being pointed out to you each time you repeated the SG line there wasn't.

How do you know it isn't money being reallocated from somewhere else?

[Billy Jean King]

Personally, I would have given any extra money to bands 1 to 4 inclusive.
And I would have offered Bands 7 or above less than the £2200 offered by the SG to pay for it.

Re my post above clearly you dont. Do this and bands 1 to 4 will end up getting paid more than the bands immediately above. It's just not how wage structures work but you know that and are straw clutching now.

[hk blues]

10 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

You were told this last night. You just didn't want to accept it.

It's really not misleading. Teachers officially work 235 of the 261 working days each year, and, as such, are paid for 90% of the year.

If you and I had different jobs but a similar base salary, and you worked 5 days a week and I had every other Friday off, then I would earn YourSalary*0.9 - For all intents and purposes my salary if anyone asked would be what I actually got paid, but if I was upset about feeling I was not being paid fairly for the work I was doing, then the only fair way to compare my salary to yours would be to standardise the time frame both were calculated over.

If you don't agree with that fairly basic principle then I can only come to the conclusion that you just don't want to, probably as it doesn't fall on the side of the argument you would like to make.

What would absolutely be disingenuous btw would be for me to claim I wasn't paid for my holidays because I got no pay for every other Friday.

I don't necessarily disagree with the concept - it's not that unusual to convert a part-time salary to full time equivalent.  But, it would be a stretch to describe teachers' work schedule as part-time.  Also, it's usually only done when there is a full time equivalent option - with teaching there isn't and thus what are we comparing with, and why? 

That said, it's a tad brass-necked of any teacher to complain they only get paid for 10 months of the year and if this is the general feeling of most teachers then you are quite right to pro-rate their salary.

[Monkey Tennis]

52 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

 

Your point about burn out and workload over and above contracted hours is a completely valid, but separate one. They aren't striking to demand improvements in that regard, and this opportunistic cash grab will do nothing to help them in that area either.

I agree that the argument about conditions is valid and separate.  Some might even say it's more urgent.

However, the characterisation of this action as an "opportunistic cash grab" is er... entirely opportunistic.

The wish to have wages keep up better (not fully of course) with inflation, cannot reasonably be seen in the terms you use.

I can only guess at your spluttering anger back in 2008, given that teachers' pay is now worth 25% less than it was then.

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Monkey Tennis

[Billy Jean King]

How do you know it isn't money being reallocated from somewhere else?

Your still falling for the SG line hook, line and sinker. Didn't have you down as a fanboy that hung on their every word but Simps going to Simp as the phrase goes.

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, Billy Jean King said:

4 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

How do you know it isn't money being reallocated from somewhere else?

Your still falling for the SG line hook, line and sinker. Didn't have you down as a fanboy that hung on their every word but Simps going to Simp as the phrase goes.

It was actually a genuine question. However, if you can't show that it isn't, then you are in no position to make the statement you did.

[Monkey Tennis]

4 minutes ago, hk blues said:

 

That said, it's a tad brass-necked of any teacher to complain they only get paid for 10 months of the year and if this is the general feeling of most teachers then you are quite right to pro-rate their salary.

Is that actually happening though?

I can categorically state that it's not the "general feeling of most teachers".  In fact I've not once heard it mentioned outside this thread.

[mathematics]

2 hours ago, EvilScotsman said:

Some professional services staff were on strike (at least in England) - UCU isn't just for lecturers.

And EIS isn’t just for school teachers.

[MacDonald Jardine]

3 minutes ago, mathematics said:

And EIS isn’t just for school teachers.

https://www.eis.org.uk/join/who-can-join

Aye it's a broad church right enough  

[Billy Jean King]

It was actually a genuine question. However, if you can't show that it isn't, then you are in no position to make the statement you did.

The simple answer is you don't know, I don't know, no one knows as they haven't said but they WILL pedal the line that it's been robbed from Peter to pay Paul as they think it stops others striking for similar deals. I'd hazard a guess the extra Barnet money from the budget might have influenced it but we don't know. What we do know is the SG will say it came from another budget regardless. Yourself and Oaky can keep banging on about PS pay deals but as is being shown, strike and you (rightly in the current financial climate) get.

[MacDonald Jardine]

4 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Is that actually happening though?

I can categorically state that it's not the "general feeling of most teachers".  In fact I've not once heard it mentioned outside this thread.

It may not be the general feeling but I've heard it on more than one occasion. 

[hk blues]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Is that actually happening though?

I can categorically state that it's not the "general feeling of most teachers".  In fact I've not once heard it mentioned outside this thread.

I've no idea what the general feeling is to be honest, I'm out of the loop totally.  That's why I said if.  

[Todd_is_God]

11 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

17 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

It was actually a genuine question. However, if you can't show that it isn't, then you are in no position to make the statement you did.

I don't know

All you had to say

[scottsdad]

2 hours ago, EvilScotsman said:

Some professional services staff were on strike (at least in England) - UCU isn't just for lecturers.

The teaching team I am in has 10 people; 2 are on strike. The PS teams have all been centralised so it's harder for me to make an estimate there. But you are correct - some PS staff will be striking too.

[scottsdad]

Heard a rumour that the University of Sheffield have given their staff 6.5% or thereabouts. A 3% cost of living rise plus putting everyone up a spine point (thus still remaining as part of the UUK collective bargaining position). First to break ranks. Also giving all staff £1k extra.

[mathematics]

3 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Heard a rumour that the University of Sheffield have given their staff 6.5% or thereabouts. A 3% cost of living rise plus putting everyone up a spine point (thus still remaining as part of the UUK collective bargaining position). First to break ranks. Also giving all staff £1k extra.

What happens to those at the top of their spines?

[Billy Jean King]

What happens to those at the top of their spines?

Their heads appear ?

[scottsdad]

3 minutes ago, mathematics said:

What happens to those at the top of their spines?

They go up to the next spine (i.e. bottom of the next grade scale).

This is just a rumour I heard though. Apparently here we are moving people who have been top of their grade for more than 3 years up a spine point also.