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The years of discontent, 2022/23


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Old school strike rules would be anyone entering the struck facility would be “crossing the picket line” and subject to various abuses, regardless of their duties, with a safety of life exception grudgingly allowed. These days who the feck knows what some of the strikers are thinking. There is a wide range of attitudes, militancy, and such across almost any striking group that knowing what is “accepted” and what isn’t seems damn near impossible.
I said that as I got challenged, I don't work for the uni but I support you in the strike.
The guy came back with "well this is our place of work, you shouldn't be going in" over and over and he was pretty indignant, he was partially blocking my way. Didn't get too heated or anything and I eventually just squeezed past and went in but I hadn't experienced this in any of the previous strikes at the uni.

My colleagues (different role) have been on strike this year and I still have to go in. They wouldn't give us abuse as it's an entirely different role and us going in to to sit down doesn't make any difference to their fight. The guy in question is a w****r and you would have been well within your right to tell him to f**k off.

Hard not to feel genuinely sorry for those on minimum wage or part time hours who are on the bread-line right now and now can't get to work because comparatively very well-paid train drivers and teachers are on strike.
Not sure how much long the unions are going to have public support behind them.
Lets not bore out this thread as well. Just because someone makes more money than someone else doesn't mean they can't fight for more money.
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Hard not to feel genuinely sorry for those on minimum wage or part time hours who are on the bread-line right now and now can't get to work because comparatively very well-paid train drivers and teachers are on strike.
Not sure how much long the unions are going to have public support behind them.
The issue there is the concept of public support has been massively diluted due to the number of folk who would have been inconvenienced by such action pre pandemic who now have access to home working. The level of disruption is nowhere near what it would have been say 3 years ago and as such the public just shrug and accept it as is perfectly highlighted by just how long now the train strikes in particular have been going on. The public are not massively inconvenienced hence the strikes are having little impact the way the unions hoped and the govt and management know this and are happy for them to trundle on with very little ramping up of pressure from a disaffected public.

To really cause a big enough inconvenience to force an attempt at a settlement it really needs an "all out" and the unions know their members simply can't afford that so they don't have a mandate for it. It's a total stalemate no matter what dispute you look at.
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44 minutes ago, Scotty Tunbridge said:

Excuse my ignorance but why are teachers on Twitter etc claiming they don’t get paid during their holidays? Do they literally not get a wage during the summer holidays?

It's certainly disingenuous for them to claim that IMO, as, like everyone else, they get paid for the time they are actually at work, plus statutory holidays. In other words, the summer holidays are unpaid leave as they are technically not under contract during them, but Christmas, Easter and the October week are paid holidays.

So while they get paid for 10 months they can choose to spread it over 12 months. Something they fail to mention when highlighting their salary. Starting salary for a qualified primary teacher in Scotland is £33,729, rising to £42,336 after five years. Annualised that is £40,474 & £50,802. Hardly the poorly paid poor teachers they claim.

If they aren't happy only being paid for 10 months work, they could always pick up a summer job to make up the hours...

Edited by Todd_is_God
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Any union member who doesn't understand the laws around things like secondary picketing is doing more harm than good.

People not in the collective who are legally on strike, cannot simply "not cross the picket line". The only people who are fair game for pelters are those who are in said collective, but not union members.

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56 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

So while they get paid for 10 months they can choose to spread it over 12 months. 

What are you on about?

They get paid each month ie. twelve times a year. I'm not aware of anyone 'choosing' anything.  Is this a thing?

I also fail to recognise anything about not being under contract in the summer, and it somehow being different from the other school holidays.  As for taking what is a salary, and then attempting to 'annualise' it, again I'm baffled.

 

Where have you got this stuff?

Edited by Monkey Tennis
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So the new offer to the NHS staff is odd.
£35 million has been found from somewhere but instead of being offered to those at the bottom of the earning ladder it's been directed at those in the middle wage bracket for reasons best known to Humza.
 

The lowest paid are getting an 11.3% rise so…who’s getting a bigger uplift exactly?

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You can abuse the statistics all you like but the people in the middle are being offered the biggest absolute amount of money and the gap between their wage and those below them will increase.
Those at the bottom are being offered around £2200 and those in the middle around £2600. The percentages are absolutely irrelevant in this regard.

Well no, it’s just a matter of fact that the band system will result in what you would insinuate as money being directed to middle earners as opposed to the lowest earners. An 11% uplift for Band 1 and Point 1 Band 2 is a tremendous result.
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4 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You can abuse the statistics all you like but the people in the middle are being offered the biggest absolute amount of money and the gap between their wage and those below them will increase.

Those at the bottom are being offered around £2200 and those in the middle around £2600. The percentages are absolutely irrelevant in this regard.

That's an utterly bizarre argument.

I'm not remotely surprised that you're making it.

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That's an utterly bizarre argument.
I'm not remotely surprised that you're making it.

I know for a fact he is, as usual, posing that “argument” in bad faith, but the raw stats completely disprove what he’s trying to imply.
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If you think that a pay rise of £2200 is more than a pay rise of £2600 then there's literally nothing I can do to help you.
Youtube has some great videos on basic arithmetic for absolute beginners.
I'd start there.

The difference in figures is because the starting wages between Band 1 and Band 6 jobs are usually different. Amazing I have to point that out to you. 11.32% buddy, nice try.

Who’s going to appreciate the pay rise more?
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The person who has an extra £400 to spend.
Was that a trick question?

I mean, in relative terms the rise for those on the lowest band has a greater impact than those in the middle band. It’s more significant for their income.

Those starting at band 1 will not be on a wage not too dissimilar to the old top of band 2, there’s no movement like it when looking at the other bands.
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38 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

So the new offer to the NHS staff is odd.

£35 million has been found from somewhere but instead of being offered to those at the bottom of the earning ladder it's been directed at those in the middle wage bracket for reasons best known to Humza.

 

stuffed doon Michelle Mone's bra

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An extra £400 was found for one group of workers.
The question was, who would have benefitted most from being given it?
And the answer is apparently not "those at the bottom of the wage scale"???
And to say otherwise is to debate in bad faith?????
Suit yourself.

You’d have ended up having band 1 on a starting wage over and above the old top of band 2, unfortunately for the skills required, and the criteria for a “banded” pay framework this just wouldn’t be feasible. As crucial as they are, a domestic assistant isn’t going to be on the same (or near) starting wage as a Pharmacy Tech Trainee.
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A 5% increase for a teacher at the top of the scale (after teaching for 6 years) works out at something like a £110 increase a month in take home wage.

My costs for electricity/gas, shopping and petrol have gone up more than that per month over the last year. I would be surprised if it was not the same for the vast majority. I simply don't think I should be expected to be worse off just because other people earn less money than me.

 

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That's just sheer deflection right there.
This isn't about fighting for more money.
This is about people on much higher wages deliberately taking actions they know full well will disproportionately affect those right at the bottom.
I'm not deflecting anything, you did this in the Scotrail thread as well. Much like there - at what income are you not allowed to fight for more money because "people on minimum wage", in your opinion?
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51 minutes ago, Am Featha *****h Nan Clach said:

A 5% increase for a teacher at the top of the scale (after teaching for 6 years) works out at something like a £110 increase a month in take home wage.

My costs for electricity/gas, shopping and petrol have gone up more than that per month over the last year. I would be surprised if it was not the same for the vast majority. I simply don't think I should be expected to be worse off just because other people earn less money than me.

 

Given the inflation rates everyone is worse off even after pay rises.

I'm a local government employee and the teachers' grasp on reality and more particularly sense of entitlement is extraordinary. 

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