The years of discontent, 2022/23

[Left Back]

5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

That's absolutely none of my business, and we're I one of the employees, or their shop steward, I would still be advocating industrial action for a better pay deal if what was offered fell short of what was acceptable. 

I will do so when my works pay negotiations start and I won't gove a single f**k what pot they have to dip to get it. My relationship to my employer is money for time/skills. If I don't feel the balance is right il pull what levers I have. 

I have to wonder, which workers are you OK with seeking a better pay rise? Only private sector? 

I’m not asking as a worker, or related to your individual circumstances or anything like that.  I’m asking, in your opinion, as a resident in Scotland that will be impacted by this, how should it be funded?

[BTFD]

Be very specific.

[Bairnardo]

1 minute ago, Left Back said:

I’m not asking as a worker, or related to your individual circumstances or anything like that.  I’m asking, in your opinion, as a resident in Scotland that will be impacted by this, how should it be funded?

I honestly have no idea. I dont know where the 600m figure came from. I dont know how much the initial pay offer would have cost. 

 

That said, and I'm not saying this to be disingenuous.... I dont care. My opinion over this is borne of being a trade unionist. If the elected representatives of the union to whom I pay my dues came to me and said "wind your neck in over the pay offer, we need to consider how this is getting paid for" id tell them to get fucked. 

Their obligation is to their members. They are a member led organisation. I am pleased to see that they have delivered for their members. Thats what this is.  

[Left Back]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I honestly have no idea. I dont know where the 600m figure came from. I dont know how much the initial pay offer would have cost. 

 

That said, and I'm not saying this to be disingenuous.... I dont care. My opinion over this is borne of being a trade unionist. If the elected representatives of the union to whom I pay my dues came to me and said "wind your neck in over the pay offer, we need to consider how this is getting paid for" id tell them to get fucked. 

Their obligation is to their members. They are a member led organisation. I am pleased to see that they have delivered for their members. Thats what this is.  

So if you don’t care how it’s funded you’re happy for your services to be cut and your taxes to rise then.  You’ll obviously have no right to complain about that if (and probably when) it happens.

Services being cut normally entails job losses btw.  Power to the people.

[Bairnardo]

So if you don’t care how it’s funded you’re happy for your services to be cut and your taxes to rise then.  You’ll obviously have no right to complain about that if (and probably when) it happens.
Services being cut normally entails job losses btw.  Power to the people.

This is a bit desperate in all honesty. Crack on.

[Left Back]

1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

2 minutes ago, Left Back said:

So if you don’t care how it’s funded you’re happy for your services to be cut and your taxes to rise then.  You’ll obviously have no right to complain about that if (and probably when) it happens.
Services being cut normally entails job losses btw.  Power to the people.

This is a bit desperate in all honesty. Crack on.

Really?  What part do you think is desperate?

SG are obviously rolling in money and can afford massive payrises across the board without any impact on anything.

Unions having a go at SG in the media is surely the optics the SG want.  It’s a real vote winner.  Do you not think if they had this money hidden under the mattress they would have used it to avoid all the negative press?

You aren’t really connected to the real world are you?

[Bairnardo]

4 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Really?  What part do you think is desperate?

SG are obviously rolling in money and can afford massive payrises across the board without any impact on anything.

Unions having a go at SG in the media is surely the optics the SG want.  It’s a real vote winner.  Do you not think if they had this money hidden under the mattress they would have used it to avoid all the negative press?

You aren’t really connected to the real world are you?

Christ. I have spoken loads about trade unions on here over the years. I have spoke loads about how even if I don't always agree with them on every issue, I will always support their right to exist and to take action. I consider the taking of industrail action to be an act of bravery and sacrifice. 

I do not consider being a public sector employee a reason why you should give up any of the above. 

Theres absolutely no reason why I must be able to cost out a public sector pay rise in order to hold those views. 

[Left Back]

1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

Christ. I have spoken loads about trade unions on here over the years. I have spoke loads about how even if I don't always agree with them on every issue, I will always support their right to exist and to take action. I consider the taking of industrail action to be an act of bravery and sacrifice. 

I do not consider being a public sector employee a reason why you should give up any of the above. 

Theres absolutely no reason why I must be able to cost out a public sector pay rise in order to hold those views. 

No-one has said you can’t hold those views.  As has been pointed out you don’t have the right to complain when the payrises impact your services and taxes.

Do you genuinely think that isn’t going to happen and there is no impact coming because of all these double digit payrises?

[Bairnardo]

No-one has said you can’t hold those views.  As has been pointed out you don’t have the right to complain when the payrises impact your services and taxes.
Do you genuinely think that isn’t going to happen and there is no impact coming because of all these double digit payrises?

I have the right to complain about whatever I want btw. One doesn't actually exclude the other. But I have already said I won't blame the workers.

As an aside, does anyone have the detail of the offer? Are there double digit rises involved?

[BTFD]

Dunno how long it's been going on, but this desperate angry contrarian schtick is quite something.

Looking forward to seeing how it spreads to other topics TBH.

[Loonytoons]

I have the right to complain about whatever I want btw. One doesn't actually exclude the other. But I have already said I won't blame the workers.

As an aside, does anyone have the detail of the offer? Are there double digit rises involved?

Sliding scale.

[Left Back]

1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

I have the right to complain about whatever I want btw. One doesn't actually exclude the other. But I have already said I won't blame the workers.

As an aside, does anyone have the detail of the offer? Are there double digit rises involved?

Unions call off Scottish school and bin strikes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62766520
 

So the workers/unions can do whatever they like and be blameless for the impacts in your view?  Is there absolutely no line?  Nothing they aren’t entitled to at the expense of other services or workers?  Complete dog eat dog?

[Left Back]

5 minutes ago, Loonytoons said:

Sliding scale.

Except for those earning £39k to £60k.  Got the best deal by the looks of it.

Chalk up another win for the low paid.

[vikingTON]

13 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Except for those earning £39k to £60k.  Got the best deal by the looks of it.

Care to walk us through the sums on that claim? 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Will be interesting to see what services the "up the workers [emoji1363]" guys are happy to see cut back.
Or will they be more than happy when the council tax letter lands through their door and it's gone up to cover this?

A large chunk of the settlement will already be there - for example, in 2020-21 the Scottish Government carried forward £874 million from its budget. Some councils have also carried forward significant sums from 2021-22 - it was reported today that Fife Council has carried forward £183 million to this year to cushion the effect of rising costs.

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/20895326.fife-council-almost-183m-unspent-cash-cushion-blow-rising-costs/

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

A large chunk of the settlement will already be there - for example, in 2020-21 the Scottish Government carried forward £874 million from its budget. Some councils have also carried forward significant sums from 2021-22 - it was reported today that Fife Council has carried forward £183 million to this year to cushion the effect of rising costs.

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/20895326.fife-council-almost-183m-unspent-cash-cushion-blow-rising-costs/
 

Other local authorities were already in enormous deficit though and no amount of SG settlement is actually going to cover for this. 

Somebody is going to have to pick up an enormous tab here and it's entirely unclear who that's going to be. To be fair, the tapered increase deal is far better than calling for a flat pay rise across the board. 

[Bairnardo]

Unions call off Scottish school and bin strikes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62766520
 
So the workers/unions can do whatever they like and be blameless for the impacts in your view?  Is there absolutely no line?  Nothing they aren’t entitled to at the expense of other services or workers?  Complete dog eat dog?

This is childish tbh. And I think I have outlined where I stand well enough without jumping through whichever hypothetical hoops you decide to place next

[Left Back]

8 minutes ago, virginton said:

Care to walk us through the sums on that claim? 

It’s very easy to work out the actual cash value of the pay rise for people in that bracket.  Above about £43k they pay higher rate tax so of course the cash value will be eroded  so you can’t look at it purely in those terms. 
 

if you take some snapshots though someone on £21k will get £1925.  After income tax thats £1540.  There will be additional NI as well which I can’t remember the rates for.

Someone on £50k will be getting £1475 so almost as much actual cash.

The facts are that the lower paid are more impacted by the current crisis as they spend a higher proportion on essentials like energy so in terms of advancing their standards of living this isn’t cutting it.  The lowest paid will be struggling.  Those in the higher brackets are likely very happy with what they’re getting.

 

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, Left Back said:

If you take some snapshots though someone on £21k will get £1925.  After income tax thats £1540.  There will be additional NI as well which I can’t remember the rates for.

Someone on £50k will be getting £1475 so almost as much actual cash.

Err yes but a £1925 rise is worth far more to the person on £21k than £1475 is to someone at the top end. The equivalent rise would have to be well over £4k for the top-end employee to match the equivalent rise at the bottom end of the pay scale.

There are still going to be major public finance/local authority shortfalls coming due, but it's undoubtedly a more progressive settlement than a flat salary rise, and the 'winners'/least losers are at the bottom. 

[DA Baracus]

Hearing that lollipop ladies are going to be executed to pay for this.

Hope you're all happy. Disgrace.