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The year of discontent, 2022


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I have the right to complain about whatever I want btw. One doesn't actually exclude the other. But I have already said I won't blame the workers.

As an aside, does anyone have the detail of the offer? Are there double digit rises involved?
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1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

I have the right to complain about whatever I want btw. One doesn't actually exclude the other. But I have already said I won't blame the workers.

As an aside, does anyone have the detail of the offer? Are there double digit rises involved?

Unions call off Scottish school and bin strikes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62766520
 

So the workers/unions can do whatever they like and be blameless for the impacts in your view?  Is there absolutely no line?  Nothing they aren’t entitled to at the expense of other services or workers?  Complete dog eat dog?

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Will be interesting to see what services the "up the workers " guys are happy to see cut back.
Or will they be more than happy when the council tax letter lands through their door and it's gone up to cover this?
A large chunk of the settlement will already be there - for example, in 2020-21 the Scottish Government carried forward £874 million from its budget. Some councils have also carried forward significant sums from 2021-22 - it was reported today that Fife Council has carried forward £183 million to this year to cushion the effect of rising costs.

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/20895326.fife-council-almost-183m-unspent-cash-cushion-blow-rising-costs/

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1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

A large chunk of the settlement will already be there - for example, in 2020-21 the Scottish Government carried forward £874 million from its budget. Some councils have also carried forward significant sums from 2021-22 - it was reported today that Fife Council has carried forward £183 million to this year to cushion the effect of rising costs.

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/20895326.fife-council-almost-183m-unspent-cash-cushion-blow-rising-costs/
 

Other local authorities were already in enormous deficit though and no amount of SG settlement is actually going to cover for this. 

Somebody is going to have to pick up an enormous tab here and it's entirely unclear who that's going to be. To be fair, the tapered increase deal is far better than calling for a flat pay rise across the board. 

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Unions call off Scottish school and bin strikes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62766520
 
So the workers/unions can do whatever they like and be blameless for the impacts in your view?  Is there absolutely no line?  Nothing they aren’t entitled to at the expense of other services or workers?  Complete dog eat dog?
This is childish tbh. And I think I have outlined where I stand well enough without jumping through whichever hypothetical hoops you decide to place next
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8 minutes ago, virginton said:

Care to walk us through the sums on that claim? 

It’s very easy to work out the actual cash value of the pay rise for people in that bracket.  Above about £43k they pay higher rate tax so of course the cash value will be eroded  so you can’t look at it purely in those terms. 
 

if you take some snapshots though someone on £21k will get £1925.  After income tax thats £1540.  There will be additional NI as well which I can’t remember the rates for.

Someone on £50k will be getting £1475 so almost as much actual cash.

The facts are that the lower paid are more impacted by the current crisis as they spend a higher proportion on essentials like energy so in terms of advancing their standards of living this isn’t cutting it.  The lowest paid will be struggling.  Those in the higher brackets are likely very happy with what they’re getting.

 

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2 minutes ago, Left Back said:

If you take some snapshots though someone on £21k will get £1925.  After income tax thats £1540.  There will be additional NI as well which I can’t remember the rates for.

Someone on £50k will be getting £1475 so almost as much actual cash.

Err yes but a £1925 rise is worth far more to the person on £21k than £1475 is to someone at the top end. The equivalent rise would have to be well over £4k for the top-end employee to match the equivalent rise at the bottom end of the pay scale.

There are still going to be major public finance/local authority shortfalls coming due, but it's undoubtedly a more progressive settlement than a flat salary rise, and the 'winners'/least losers are at the bottom. 

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17 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:
47 minutes ago, Left Back said:
Unions call off Scottish school and bin strikes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62766520
 
So the workers/unions can do whatever they like and be blameless for the impacts in your view?  Is there absolutely no line?  Nothing they aren’t entitled to at the expense of other services or workers?  Complete dog eat dog?

This is childish tbh. And I think I have outlined where I stand well enough without jumping through whichever hypothetical hoops you decide to place next

I think we’re clear where you stand.  SG handing out huge pay rises have no consequences in your world but that doesn’t matter.  It’s the government right?  They’ll have the money somewhere so there will be no impact to anything.

You have no clue what services have to be cut or taxes raised to fund it, nor do you care but you reserve the right to complain about it when it happens.

Unions/workers have nothing to do with service cuts or tax rises.

Anyone that loses their job as part of a service cut is just collateral damage.

I think I’ve summarised it OK.

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Unfortunately my industry doesn't really have a union, and is a semi-public organisation - so stuck with a 2% pay rise (an 8% real terms cut)

Asked for more recently and was told by my manager "I think you're quite well paid"

Fortunately, I'm in a decent position in the fact I'm staying with family rather than renting a flat, but christ there's not a chance I could afford a 1-bed flat to rent and heat on the pay that I'm on.

 

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Other local authorities were already in enormous deficit though and no amount of SG settlement is actually going to cover for this. 
Somebody is going to have to pick up an enormous tab here and it's entirely unclear who that's going to be. To be fair, the tapered increase deal is far better than calling for a flat pay rise across the board. 
I'm not disagreeing - just pointing out that the Scottish Government will not have to find the entirety of the funding for their contribution towards the settlement - they will also have more leeway than LAs to handle their share.

As you say, there are some councils who are seriously in deficit - in those areas there is a real issue. They will struggle to find the extra cash by cutting services as in many cases they are already cut to the bone. The only solution I can only see is increasing Council Taxes in these LAs in 2023-24.

There's also the elephant in the room of some councils having much smaller tax bases due to urban depopulation yet not having an equivalent fall in expenditure because they still need to maintain infrastructure. Those councils who are in surplus are only in that situation because of suburbanisation and the migration of the middle classes to the commuter towns and villages - not paying taxes in their working location but still reliant on their working location's infrastructure.
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I've found the social media narrative around the strikes absolutely brilliant tbh

  1. **Cost of Living crisis ramps up**
  2. GET A'BODY OOT ON THE STREETS! HOW ARE WE GONNA SURVIVE THESE HORRENDOUS RISES???!!?!!!!111
  3. **Binmen go on strike causing miniscule inconvenience for a few days**
  4. OH MA GOAD THIS IS AWFUL. MA PURPLE BIN'S FULL!!1111 GET THEM SACKED AND GET AGENCY WURKURS IN!!!!1111

Genuine 😂 at society

 

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1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:


As you say, there are some councils who are seriously in deficit - in those areas there is a real issue. They will struggle to find the extra cash by cutting services as in many cases they are already cut to the bone. The only solution I can only see is increasing Council Taxes in these LAs in 2023-24.

They’ll start cutting off bits of the bone.

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47 minutes ago, Proudtobeabairn said:

Rail strike confirmed for the day of the Dunfermline game I see.  Hopefully won't hit numbers too much.  

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/train-strike-rail-rmt-september-b2157694.html

 

23 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Bollocks. I was just checking trains there for it tae 

 

12 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Yeah fair enough, you won't catch me disagreeing that the "Great British Public" is utterly riddled with morons who will do exactly as you say.

Those people just add more fuel to the fires trade unions are constantly fighting though. The ones that suddenly start worrying about "hard working Brits" when they can't get a train one day.

 

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I think we’re clear where you stand.  SG handing out huge pay rises have no consequences in your world but that doesn’t matter.  It’s the government right?  They’ll have the money somewhere so there will be no impact to anything.
You have no clue what services have to be cut or taxes raised to fund it, nor do you care but you reserve the right to complain about it when it happens.
Unions/workers have nothing to do with service cuts or tax rises.
Anyone that loses their job as part of a service cut is just collateral damage.
I think I’ve summarised it OK.
You have summarised it well enough to suit your agenda I suppose, including totally subjective and rather dramatic language like "huge pay rises" but since you are so keen on nailing down all of my opinions, is it your opinion that all public sector workers ought to accept the offer put to them in the first instance by their employer? If not, what would be acceptable to you as a taxpayer for them to accept?
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7 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:
10 hours ago, Left Back said:
I think we’re clear where you stand.  SG handing out huge pay rises have no consequences in your world but that doesn’t matter.  It’s the government right?  They’ll have the money somewhere so there will be no impact to anything.
You have no clue what services have to be cut or taxes raised to fund it, nor do you care but you reserve the right to complain about it when it happens.
Unions/workers have nothing to do with service cuts or tax rises.
Anyone that loses their job as part of a service cut is just collateral damage.
I think I’ve summarised it OK.

You have summarised it well enough to suit your agenda I suppose, including totally subjective and rather dramatic language like "huge pay rises" but since you are so keen on nailing down all of my opinions, is it your opinion that all public sector workers ought to accept the offer put to them in the first instance by their employer? If not, what would be acceptable to you as a taxpayer for them to accept?

What a ridiculous question. That would obviously depend entirely on what that offer was.

FWIW I think the starting point should have been more normal payrises across the board.  Something like 2-3%.  An addition rise for low paid workers, something like doubling their pay rise.  The. Additional one off payments for cost of living.  The exact figures would depend on funds available without impacting services.

I wouldn’t have locked in this additional public sector spending commitment as all this extra money has to be found even after inflation stabilises.

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11 hours ago, Loonytoons said:

Sliding scale. Screenshot_20220902-222444_Samsung Internet.jpg

Thanks for this.

So we're going to see tax increases or service cuts, which will affect the poorest in society, because the unions have demanded that workers on over £40k get in on this pay rise.

Jeezo.

Edited by oaksoft
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  • 101 changed the title to The year of discontent, 2022

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