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The year of discontent, 2022


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9 minutes ago, deegee said:

Thanks and I take and agree with your point. So, from my point of ignorance (always worked in non unionised private sector), do you agree a sum figure of around £1500-2000 would be the best way to lift lower paid staff and give more direct support to the most needy?

I’ve not followed this too closely but seen this plan on a recent post (I think this is the English plan?) and on the face of it, it sounds a good idea and targets the poorer staff but still gives something to everyone on a higher salary.

Yeah. 

In recent years I have had 1% with the lowest paid workers getting 3% and that's fine by me. I think the payment was capped too so the managers on 6 figures didn't get the full 1%.

I haven't done the sums but whichever one of those, variable %age or flat cash increase, is best for those on the lowest pay I'd go with.

I don't need 5%. The cost of living increase will be a pain in the arse for me but I won't have the heating off or miss a meal. 

Edited by invergowrie arab
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I'll ask a silly question but can't they just give the bin persons whatever they want and put the cost on the council tax?
This isn't a bin workers dispute. This is the multi union, council wide pay dispute covering every LA worker in Scotland except teachers. The bin men are being "used" (along with non teaching school staff from next month) as those are seen as the groups of staff where striking will have the biggest effect on the public and hence give their claim the most traction. To use Council Tax as an example, pull those staff out and no one would bat an eyelid as no one would notice any affect on their day to day life.

The media have covered this in such a way as to portray it as a bin workers dispute, it really isn't so the cost to C/Tax payers if simply bumping it up to cover any excess rise would be huge.
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I drove past a picket line today in Grangemouth, at the docks roundabout. Have no idea what it was for, but gave them a toot and a thumbs up anyway, and they all waved. It was a small moment of brotherhood and solidarity that gave me an enormous sense of wellbeing.

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1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

I drove past a picket line today in Grangemouth, at the docks roundabout. Have no idea what it was for, but gave them a toot and a thumbs up anyway, and they all waved. It was a small moment of brotherhood and solidarity that gave me an enormous sense of wellbeing.

Parklife

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The subject of industrial action came up in conversation today with someone who launched into the topic with, "I'm not in a union...", at which point my ring clenched up like an octopus squeezing a gull.

Remarkably, they were expressing support for those striking. Still in shock. Must be a first.

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9 minutes ago, BFTD said:

The subject of industrial action came up in conversation today with someone who launched into the topic with, "I'm not in a union...", at which point my ring clenched up like an octopus squeezing a gull.

Remarkably, they were expressing support for those striking. Still in shock. Must be a first.

My standard response to people complaining about Unions is to ask them if they enjoyed their days off last week.

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3 minutes ago, Gaz said:

My standard response to people complaining about Unions is to ask them if they enjoyed their days off last week.

There was a really, really depressing thread about trade unions on here a long time back, and the general consensus from the younger posters was that unions were pointless and a waste of time. Anyone making those kinds of points was laughed at.

It really can't be overstated just how successful Margaret Thatcher was in achieving at least some of her aims. The state would've been deeply ungrateful not to have given her a good send-off.

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2 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

This sort of thing should be brought up every single time any Tory or Tory sympathisers are being interviewed, it won’t, but it should. 

Easily answered.

Point One:

There's 115,000 people employed in the rail industry apparently.

What would be the total cost of giving them all a 7% pay rise for example?

Now compare that to the total sum involved in paying a couple of executives an 11.8% pay rise?

The two net numbers are in completely different leagues.

Point Two:

How many of those rail workers could run a multi-million pound company for more than a fortnight before it ran out of cash?

 

People are not paid based on fairness. They are paid on their value to the payer - perceived or otherwise.

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2 hours ago, Gaz said:

My standard response to people complaining about Unions is to ask them if they enjoyed their days off last week.

Yes, but it's not the 1900s any more.

If you're having to reach for past glories to make a case for relevance today you're losing the argument.

It's like England banging on about 1966.

Edited by oaksoft
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The obvious points being:

  • it's a very bad look to be awarding yourself huge additions to your bumper pay packet while telling the plebs that the biscuit tin is empty, and
  • that the undermining of worker solidarity will eventually result in the erosion of worker's rights again.

But hey, how could our favourite Objectivist give up the opportunity to dismiss the concerns of the working class yet again? He's still alright, Jack!

(apart from the heating bills)

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4 minutes ago, BFTD said:

The obvious points being:

  • it's a very bad look to be awarding yourself huge additions to your bumper pay packet while telling the plebs that the biscuit tin is empty, and
  • that the undermining of worker solidarity will eventually result in the erosion of worker's rights again.

But hey, how could our favourite Objectivist give up the opportunity to dismiss the concerns of the working class yet again? He's still alright, Jack!

(apart from the heating bills)

Executives don't choose their own pay.

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5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

 

Point Two:

How many of those rail workers could run a multi-million pound company for more than a fortnight before it ran out of cash?

 

People are not paid based on fairness. They are paid on their value to the payer - perceived or otherwise.

Probably all of them, just by doing nothing most could achieve it.

The technical challenges of an executive role aren't particularly onerous, you need a broad business understanding, financial knowledge and relationship skills. Anyone could fake it for a month, and probably a few. Some might even do it quite well. Very few executives could drive a train, of course.

The explosion in executive pay hasn't helped business, it's a race to the bottom.

3 hours ago, Bairnardo said:
4 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:
Executives don't choose their own pay.

I'm sure they pull what levers they can to maximise it though.

Well of course they do, and nothing wrong with that either really (nor workers maximising their wages). Selfish, money obsessed people are more likely to become executives.

And pay is based a lot of where you are, or where you're not. Even the CEO of BP will be paid far less than CEOs of much smaller American companies (as well as partners in law firms, accountancy firms, consultancies and many in the investment / hedge fund industry).

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5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Easily answered.

Point One:

There's 115,000 people employed in the rail industry apparently.

What would be the total cost of giving them all a 7% pay rise for example?

Now compare that to the total sum involved in paying a couple of executives an 11.8% pay rise?

The two net numbers are in completely different leagues.

Point Two:

How many of those rail workers could run a multi-million pound company for more than a fortnight before it ran out of cash?

 

People are not paid based on fairness. They are paid on their value to the payer - perceived or otherwise.

People are paid according to their relative bargaining power.  Their perceived value might form part of that but it's not the whole story. 

The willingness of the counterparty to the negotiation to hold out for a lower sum is also important.  The counterparties for most public sector negotiations are quangocrats (and the occasional elected politician) and for listed companies are the directors of investment funds. 

All of those people have a vested interest in perpetuating the myth that high salaries buy good management. The costs to them of those salaries being paid are dispersed across taxpayers and investors and not borne personally. 

 

I don't think that it matters how much of a pay rise could be given to other people by reducing executive pay.  Simply the fact of increasing inequality and unfairness is unjust. 

 

What we need is an incentive to reduce inequality.  I propose this:

576cb32f05aae_louisette.jpg.9fe0507389dcab333152af9b31adcdf6.jpg

 

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Just been speaking to a couple of mates on the picket line at Dumfries Royal Mail sorting office. The gates were bolted shut at some point through the night, meaning management called the police this morning to cut the gates open. 

Up the workers 

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Just now, MONKMAN said:

Just been speaking to a couple of mates on the picket line at Dumfries Royal Mail sorting office. The gates were bolted shut at some point through the night, meaning management called the police this morning to cut the gates open. 

Up the workers 

Why are the police cutting open a private companies gate?

There is no crime being committed inside the yard so surely if it had been anyone else they would have said piss off phone a locksmith. Polis need to think about better supporting the workers here and I would hope no locksmith would touch the job leaving some management goon to go away and get bolt cutters.

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3 minutes ago, 101 said:

Why are the police cutting open a private companies gate?

There is no crime being committed inside the yard so surely if it had been anyone else they would have said piss off phone a locksmith. Polis need to think about better supporting the workers here and I would hope no locksmith would touch the job leaving some management goon to go away and get bolt cutters.

Well, those are nice thoughts, but...

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  • 101 changed the title to The year of discontent, 2022

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