Jump to content

The year of discontent, 2022


101

Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:
47 minutes ago, Left Back said:
Unions call off Scottish school and bin strikes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62766520
 
So the workers/unions can do whatever they like and be blameless for the impacts in your view?  Is there absolutely no line?  Nothing they aren’t entitled to at the expense of other services or workers?  Complete dog eat dog?

This is childish tbh. And I think I have outlined where I stand well enough without jumping through whichever hypothetical hoops you decide to place next

I think we’re clear where you stand.  SG handing out huge pay rises have no consequences in your world but that doesn’t matter.  It’s the government right?  They’ll have the money somewhere so there will be no impact to anything.

You have no clue what services have to be cut or taxes raised to fund it, nor do you care but you reserve the right to complain about it when it happens.

Unions/workers have nothing to do with service cuts or tax rises.

Anyone that loses their job as part of a service cut is just collateral damage.

I think I’ve summarised it OK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately my industry doesn't really have a union, and is a semi-public organisation - so stuck with a 2% pay rise (an 8% real terms cut)

Asked for more recently and was told by my manager "I think you're quite well paid"

Fortunately, I'm in a decent position in the fact I'm staying with family rather than renting a flat, but christ there's not a chance I could afford a 1-bed flat to rent and heat on the pay that I'm on.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Other local authorities were already in enormous deficit though and no amount of SG settlement is actually going to cover for this. 
Somebody is going to have to pick up an enormous tab here and it's entirely unclear who that's going to be. To be fair, the tapered increase deal is far better than calling for a flat pay rise across the board. 
I'm not disagreeing - just pointing out that the Scottish Government will not have to find the entirety of the funding for their contribution towards the settlement - they will also have more leeway than LAs to handle their share.

As you say, there are some councils who are seriously in deficit - in those areas there is a real issue. They will struggle to find the extra cash by cutting services as in many cases they are already cut to the bone. The only solution I can only see is increasing Council Taxes in these LAs in 2023-24.

There's also the elephant in the room of some councils having much smaller tax bases due to urban depopulation yet not having an equivalent fall in expenditure because they still need to maintain infrastructure. Those councils who are in surplus are only in that situation because of suburbanisation and the migration of the middle classes to the commuter towns and villages - not paying taxes in their working location but still reliant on their working location's infrastructure.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've found the social media narrative around the strikes absolutely brilliant tbh

  1. **Cost of Living crisis ramps up**
  2. GET A'BODY OOT ON THE STREETS! HOW ARE WE GONNA SURVIVE THESE HORRENDOUS RISES???!!?!!!!111
  3. **Binmen go on strike causing miniscule inconvenience for a few days**
  4. OH MA GOAD THIS IS AWFUL. MA PURPLE BIN'S FULL!!1111 GET THEM SACKED AND GET AGENCY WURKURS IN!!!!1111

Genuine 😂 at society

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:


As you say, there are some councils who are seriously in deficit - in those areas there is a real issue. They will struggle to find the extra cash by cutting services as in many cases they are already cut to the bone. The only solution I can only see is increasing Council Taxes in these LAs in 2023-24.

They’ll start cutting off bits of the bone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Proudtobeabairn said:

Rail strike confirmed for the day of the Dunfermline game I see.  Hopefully won't hit numbers too much.  

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/train-strike-rail-rmt-september-b2157694.html

 

23 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Bollocks. I was just checking trains there for it tae 

 

12 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Yeah fair enough, you won't catch me disagreeing that the "Great British Public" is utterly riddled with morons who will do exactly as you say.

Those people just add more fuel to the fires trade unions are constantly fighting though. The ones that suddenly start worrying about "hard working Brits" when they can't get a train one day.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we’re clear where you stand.  SG handing out huge pay rises have no consequences in your world but that doesn’t matter.  It’s the government right?  They’ll have the money somewhere so there will be no impact to anything.
You have no clue what services have to be cut or taxes raised to fund it, nor do you care but you reserve the right to complain about it when it happens.
Unions/workers have nothing to do with service cuts or tax rises.
Anyone that loses their job as part of a service cut is just collateral damage.
I think I’ve summarised it OK.
You have summarised it well enough to suit your agenda I suppose, including totally subjective and rather dramatic language like "huge pay rises" but since you are so keen on nailing down all of my opinions, is it your opinion that all public sector workers ought to accept the offer put to them in the first instance by their employer? If not, what would be acceptable to you as a taxpayer for them to accept?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:
10 hours ago, Left Back said:
I think we’re clear where you stand.  SG handing out huge pay rises have no consequences in your world but that doesn’t matter.  It’s the government right?  They’ll have the money somewhere so there will be no impact to anything.
You have no clue what services have to be cut or taxes raised to fund it, nor do you care but you reserve the right to complain about it when it happens.
Unions/workers have nothing to do with service cuts or tax rises.
Anyone that loses their job as part of a service cut is just collateral damage.
I think I’ve summarised it OK.

You have summarised it well enough to suit your agenda I suppose, including totally subjective and rather dramatic language like "huge pay rises" but since you are so keen on nailing down all of my opinions, is it your opinion that all public sector workers ought to accept the offer put to them in the first instance by their employer? If not, what would be acceptable to you as a taxpayer for them to accept?

What a ridiculous question. That would obviously depend entirely on what that offer was.

FWIW I think the starting point should have been more normal payrises across the board.  Something like 2-3%.  An addition rise for low paid workers, something like doubling their pay rise.  The. Additional one off payments for cost of living.  The exact figures would depend on funds available without impacting services.

I wouldn’t have locked in this additional public sector spending commitment as all this extra money has to be found even after inflation stabilises.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a ridiculous question. That would obviously depend entirely on what that offer was.
FWIW I think the starting point should have been more normal payrises across the board.  Something like 2-3%.  An addition rise for low paid workers, something like doubling their pay rise.  The. Additional one off payments for cost of living.  The exact figures would depend on funds available without impacting services.
I wouldn’t have locked in this additional public sector spending commitment as all this extra money has to be found even after inflation stabilises.
It's not a ridiculous question, because there's only one avenue for them to go down if they don't feel the offer is acceptable, and this is an avenue you apparently have a problem with. That you are seeking to muddy the waters by claiming folk arguing the very specific point of their own yearly pay claim should be considering government affordability when they can barely heat their homes doesn't change that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for this.
So we're going to see tax increases or service cuts, which will affect the poorest in society, because the unions have demanded that workers on over £40k get in on this pay rise.
Jeezo.
Workers on 40k or more should defer pay rises, which get negotiated every year and always have done, when inflation is running at record levels.

Gid yin.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

An emoji dropped off. Anyone can click into those quotes to take a look for themselves at any "editing".

Hopefully the RMT are offered a fair deal ahead of time so champion of the workers Bairnardo is not inconvenienced by being unable to get a train one day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

An emoji dropped off. Anyone can click into those quotes to take a look for themselves at any "editing".

Hopefully the RMT are offered a fair deal ahead of time so champion of the workers Bairnardo is not inconvenienced by being unable to get a train one day.

Dropped off.... Nae bother mate. 

 

You do realise there is absolutely no conflict whatsoever between remarking that I would have chosen to get a train one day, and supporting the right of workers to strike? You're not that thick, surely. Although the fact your wee act on here has become something of a laughing stock of late might leave you confused which direction to go in....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems to be difficult for some people to fathom that it's perfectly possible to feel mildly inconvenienced by strike action while fully supporting the strikes.

There's one-day train and postal strikes on the go here at the moment and although it might be a slight inconvenience to me at times, that's neither here nor there because the bigger picture is far more important. I support industrial action 100%, anyone throwing their toys out of the pram because it doesn't suit them can take a flying f**k at a rolling doughnut.

EDIT - Bairnardo beats me to it...

Edited by ParsJake
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:
19 minutes ago, Left Back said:
What a ridiculous question. That would obviously depend entirely on what that offer was.
FWIW I think the starting point should have been more normal payrises across the board.  Something like 2-3%.  An addition rise for low paid workers, something like doubling their pay rise.  The. Additional one off payments for cost of living.  The exact figures would depend on funds available without impacting services.
I wouldn’t have locked in this additional public sector spending commitment as all this extra money has to be found even after inflation stabilises.

It's not a ridiculous question, because there's only one avenue for them to go down if they don't feel the offer is acceptable, and this is an avenue you apparently have a problem with. That you are seeking to muddy the waters by claiming folk arguing the very specific point of their own yearly pay claim should be considering government affordability when they can barely heat their homes doesn't change that.

You asked if they should accept the first offer.  That really is a ridiculous question.  If the first offer is shite of course you don’t accept it.  You go back with a counter.   Declining the first offer doesn’t leave striking as the only option on the table.

You really do have some strange takes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Left Back said:

You asked if they should accept the first offer.  That really is a ridiculous question.  If the first offer is shite of course you don’t accept it.  You go back with a counter.   Declining the first offer doesn’t leave striking as the only option on the table.

You really do have some strange takes.

I think the only strange takes here are oaksoft basically claiming that your employee rights should be means tested and Marshy bringing forth a real life example of the "yet you participate in society.... I am very smart" meme. Both bad faith posters who changes faces easier than a smart watch. 

I dont even find your takes particularly strange or offensive. I just dont agree with them. Happy to keep it civil on that basis though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

We've been brought up to expect that most functioning adults have a reasonable understanding of how everything in society ties in together and works. As you enter adulthood it becomes crystal clear that most haven't a clue about anything.

I abandoned that expectation years ago tbh 😂

Any online debate about cycling, council tax, benefits or strikes quickly demonstrates that the general public are largely fucking idiots. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Feel free to completely misrepresent my opinions Bairny.

Not sure where you think it gets you but that's your problem.

You seem to think that folk on higher wages should just wind their necks in. You have made this point across more than just this thread. I think I have even asked you before at what point on the wage scale people should stop being allowed to fight for what they believe is fair. 

And this brings me onto another point, when people are ranting on about wages and the size of the rises. I have not passed any comment, and generally don't,  about other peoples wages. What started all of this off was me congratulating trade unionists on the successful resolution to their fight. What they got or what they earn isn't really my business. 

It's the right of the worker to unionise and take action accordingly that I have and continue to "champion" in here. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 101 changed the title to The year of discontent, 2022

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...