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The years of discontent, 2022/23


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If you won't say it. I'll say it for you.
When they don't vote it means they are not validating your grievances.
That's why you're so pissed off at people have the audacity to see things a different way.
Grow a pair and find a job you actually like. You're a full grown adult FFS.
As for me? If I'm a fanny, at least I'm a happy fanny. [emoji23]


Went back to edit in another your meltdowns there aye? I enjoy my job thanks. I have absolutely no idea what that has to do with what's going on in here mind you.
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59 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Then allow me to be clearer in my response.

Why don't you focus on your own issues, mind your own business and leave people alone to decide whether to vote or not. It's got SFA to do with you.

An incredible statement from someone who's been bitching and moaning in the Scotrail thread for weeks. 

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1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

An incredible statement from someone who's been bitching and moaning in the Scotrail thread for weeks. 

As ever, the apparent lack of self-awareness is hilarious.

For about a decade, he's been chuntering on furiously, on a forum whose users he seems to despise, about how meaningless it is to chunter on furiously on a forum. Unless it's about young, working-class, vulnerable, or minority people displaying any kind of solidarity, at which point his chuntering becomes very serious business indeed. What a performer.

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28 minutes ago, BFTD said:

As ever, the apparent lack of self-awareness is hilarious.

For about a decade, he's been chuntering on furiously, on a forum whose users he seems to despise, about how meaningless it is to chunter on furiously on a forum. Unless it's about young, working-class, vulnerable, or minority people displaying any kind of solidarity, at which point his chuntering becomes very serious business indeed. What a performer.

 

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49 minutes ago, BFTD said:

As ever, the apparent lack of self-awareness is hilarious.

For about a decade, he's been chuntering on furiously, on a forum whose users he seems to despise, about how meaningless it is to chunter on furiously on a forum. Unless it's about young, working-class, vulnerable, or minority people displaying any kind of solidarity, at which point his chuntering becomes very serious business indeed. What an arse-hole.

Fixed that for you

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11 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Then allow me to be clearer in my response.

Why don't you focus on your own issues, mind your own business and leave people alone to decide whether to vote or not. It's got SFA to do with you.

Union ballots need turnout above a certain % to be valid. If people join a union there is a moral obligation on them to participate in that union that comes from them having agreed to act as part of a collective. 

Having tried with reducing success to recruit union members and persuade them to take an active role, I'm unsurprised that people don't get this. Being an active part of a collective just doesn't fit with the mindset of increasing numbers of people. 

Individualism is ok up to a point, but it's a masterstroke of divide and conquer for the benefit of capitalism to have it as the only value that matters. 

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19 hours ago, oaksoft said:

 

As an aside, personally I'm always baffled as to why anyone would continue to work for an employer if they are this unhappy with how they are being treated and make no serious attempt to find alternative work. I can understand the difficulty in switching jobs but to sit in this type of employment for year after year whilst also moaning about it non-stop is something I really struggle to understand unless the job really is a life-long vocation for the employee.

That's because you live in your own wee world where everyone can apparently do a job they love. Also, how do you know people complaining haven't made serious attempts to find other suitable work? How do you know they haven't weighed all that up and instead would just like better conditions in their current job? 

Leave folk alone to make their own decisions...

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7 hours ago, oaksoft said:

That's because workers striking and getting large pay-rises affects everyone either through increased fares or reduced public services because the government is having to pay some of those rises.

A handful of union members deciding not to vote being none of your business isn't remotely comparable.

Did you really need that explained? 🤔

Have you found any info. regarding that 10% demand by Aslef yet? Or can we both agree you were talking shite again? 

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

 

And it's exactly what the likes of QOS thingy is trying to do - to guilt-trip and coerce people into voting in ballots like the one described against their obvious wishes in order to validate his own desires and choices.

 

Aye by wondering/being baffled by folk not voting one way or another on a serious decision concerning them is me guilt-tripping folk. Absolute weapon. 

For about the 5th time - have you found evidence to back up your nonsensical claim yet or can you admit to talking shite? 

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11 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Aye by wondering/being baffled by folk not voting one way or another on a serious decision concerning them is me guilt-tripping folk. Absolute weapon. 

For about the 5th time - have you found evidence to back up your nonsensical claim yet or can you admit to talking shite

That's what was reported in the media, stated by a Scotrail Director.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/scotrail-aslef-richard-lochhead-scottish-government-b1001713.html

Can you shut up about it now?

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6 minutes ago, Left Back said:

That's what was reported in the media, stated by a Scotrail Director.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/scotrail-aslef-richard-lochhead-scottish-government-b1001713.html

Can you shut up about it now?

When he backs up his claim I'll shut up about it. And the reason I'm going on about it is to highlight his arrogance that he doesn't appear to admit when he's quite clearly wrong yet will continue to talk shite. 

You can take your link away as it doesn't back up his claim either. That's a "Scotrail boss", not anything from Aslef. 

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3 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

When he backs up his claim I'll shut up about it. And the reason I'm going on about it is to highlight his arrogance that he doesn't appear to admit when he's quite clearly wrong yet will continue to talk shite. 

You can take your link away as it doesn't back up his claim either. That's a "Scotrail boss", not anything from Aslef. 

So your position here is that unless documentary evidence from Aslef is provided that they asked for a pay deal worth 10% you're not accepting they did?

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6 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

And the reason I'm going on about it is to highlight his arrogance that he doesn't appear to admit when he's quite clearly wrong yet will continue to talk shite. 

Welcome to Oaksoft Club!

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10 minutes ago, Left Back said:

So your position here is that unless documentary evidence from Aslef is provided that they asked for a pay deal worth 10% you're not accepting they did?

Well given I was in a meeting with the rep for Scotland who said they hadn't asked for a specific number then aye, I'd love to see a documented "10%".

 

ETA. I really don't care. But if he's happy to talk complete shite then he should either back up his pish or put his hands up and admit to talking shite. I'm still waiting for one of these things to happen. 

Edited by 19QOS19
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55 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Well given I was in a meeting with the rep for Scotland who said they hadn't asked for a specific number then aye, I'd love to see a documented "10%".

 

ETA. I really don't care. But if he's happy to talk complete shite then he should either back up his pish or put his hands up and admit to talking shite. I'm still waiting for one of these things to happen. 

You clearly care a bit or you wouldn't keep asking about it.

It's a classic case of "he said, she said" then.  You've seen no proof they didn't.

So in your mind that means the pay deal negotiations went something like this (paraphrasing of course).

Scotrail: "Right people, what will it take to get you back to work again.  What you looking for in a pay deal?"

Aslef: Dunno.  Something more than 4.2%  We actually have no clue what we're asking for or a figure in mind.  Playing it by ear.  Never done this before so we're making it up as we go along pal.

Somehow I don't think it's realistic a counter wasn't put into negotiations when the 4.2% was rejected.  That's not really how negotiations work.  Once side makes an offer, the other accepts or rejects.  If they reject they typically come back with a counter offer.

An alternative of course is the negotiations went something like this.

Scotrail: "Right people, what will it take to get you back to work again.  What you looking for in a pay deal?"

Aslef: Some arbitrary figure over 4.2% but less than 10%. (pick any number you like between the 2)

Scotrail:  Tell you what.  We'll lob in 5% on basic pay, another 5% on the revenue share, an extra 10% on Sunday working and we'll uplift rest day working to £400.  Total pay deal over 10%.  How does that sound?

Again, probably not realistic that they suddenly throw more onto the table than was being asked for.

Of course none of us was in the negotiations so no-one can provide any documentary proof of what happened but this 10/11% that was reported is the more plausible figure out of the three options of winging it, something over 4.2% but less than 10% or 10% or more.

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22 minutes ago, Left Back said:

You clearly care a bit or you wouldn't keep asking about it.

It's a classic case of "he said, she said" then.  You've seen no proof they didn't.

So in your mind that means the pay deal negotiations went something like this (paraphrasing of course).

Scotrail: "Right people, what will it take to get you back to work again.  What you looking for in a pay deal?"

Aslef: Dunno.  Something more than 4.2%  We actually have no clue what we're asking for or a figure in mind.  Playing it by ear.  Never done this before so we're making it up as we go along pal.

Somehow I don't think it's realistic a counter wasn't put into negotiations when the 4.2% was rejected.  That's not really how negotiations work.  Once side makes an offer, the other accepts or rejects.  If they reject they typically come back with a counter offer.

An alternative of course is the negotiations went something like this.

Scotrail: "Right people, what will it take to get you back to work again.  What you looking for in a pay deal?"

Aslef: Some arbitrary figure over 4.2% but less than 10%. (pick any number you like between the 2)

Scotrail:  Tell you what.  We'll lob in 5% on basic pay, another 5% on the revenue share, an extra 10% on Sunday working and we'll uplift rest day working to £400.  Total pay deal over 10%.  How does that sound?

Again, probably not realistic that they suddenly throw more onto the table than was being asked for.

Of course none of us was in the negotiations so no-one can provide any documentary proof of what happened but this 10/11% that was reported is the more plausible figure out of the three options of winging it, something over 4.2% but less than 10% or 10% or more.

I'll take your theory over the Union guy then and we'll leave it at that. And I've told you the reason I keep asking him. 

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