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The years of discontent, 2022/23


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4 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

My recollection us there was a 3% rise from April then a further 7% in January one year.

I think it was 2018.

Is that wrong?

3% backdated a year as there was no pay rise for a year, 7% then an additional 3% the year after.

 

In the last 2 years, pay has risen 1.22% then 1%

 

 

Edited by Am Featha Taigh Nan Clach
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Just now, MacDonald Jardine said:

That is typical of the obtuse arguments you get from teachers and their supporters. 

Getting 6-7 weeks to take off is hardly the same as almost half the year.

You're being rather silly with this "half the year" lark.  

You're implying teachers are on holiday for around half the year.  They're not.

 

Teachers do get good holidays.  Nobody would suggest otherwise.  Don't be dishonest though.

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FWIW teachers work ridiculous hours, but they are far from poorly paid, and do have plenty time to earn extra money should that be a pressing need.

They'd be far better striking for better working hours and / or classroom support, though, IMO as LAs throwing more money at a short-term problem won't relieve the stress or excessive workload.

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2 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

That is typical of the obtuse arguments you get from teachers and their supporters. 

Getting 6-7 weeks to take off is hardly the same as almost half the year.

“Almost half the year” is a bulls**t attempt to overstate by including weekends and such. Instead, why not note that the “extra holidays” you are bemoaning the teachers getting are fixed periods during which holidays are at the most expensive, and that they receive very limited ability to take time off from work during the term.

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Just now, Am Featha *****h Nan Clach said:

3% backdated a year as there was no pay rise for a year, 7% then an additional 3 the year after.

 

In the last 2 years, pay has risen 1.22% then 1%

 

 

There was a pay rise that year. It wasn’t implemented at the start of the year but was then as you say backdated 

There was then a further increase in the same financial year. 

You're right about the last couple of years. That's the same as other local government employees got 

Not that you'll see that as relevant  

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3 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

FWIW teachers work ridiculous hours, but they are far from poorly paid, and do have plenty time to earn extra money should that be a pressing need.

They'd be far better striking for better working hours and / or classroom support, though, IMO as LAs throwing more money at a short-term problem won't relieve the stress or excessive workload.

I'd agree that conditions, in many respects, are a greater concern than pay.

That doesn't, however, invalidate the pay claim.

Edited by Monkey Tennis
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6 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Half of which are unpaid and therefore aren't really holidays.

In what sense are they unpaid?

Where, and what is the nature of, this distinction between summer holidays and those that fall elsewhere in the year? 

Edited by Monkey Tennis
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6 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You're being rather silly with this "half the year" lark.  

You're implying teachers are on holiday for around half the year.  They're not.

 

Teachers do get good holidays.  Nobody would suggest otherwise.  Don't be dishonest though.

Fair enough.  I missed weekends out that calculation. 

The principle holds though. 

About 104 days per year are weekends. 

Teachers' holidays are about a quarter of the "normal working days" of the year.

Far more than anyone else gets.

As previously you are correct they are constrained in when they can take holidays within that large window.

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8 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Ok.

Where did they get it from?

I would assume the detail of their contract. Obviously I haven't read them, but here is a discussion on P&Bs favourite sister site that might help you

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4494245-are-teachers-paid-in-the-holidays

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5 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

In what sense are they unpaid?

Where, and what is the nature of, this distinction between summer holidays and those that fall elsewhere in the year? 

Of all the "holidays" that they appear to get, only 28 of those days are paid. The rest are unpaid.

Take your pick which 28 you want them to be, it makes no difference to me.

Edited by Todd_is_God
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10 minutes ago, TxRover said:

“Almost half the year” is a bulls**t attempt to overstate by including weekends and such. Instead, why not note that the “extra holidays” you are bemoaning the teachers getting are fixed periods during which holidays are at the most expensive, and that they receive very limited ability to take time off from work during the term.

They don't have limited ability to take time off at other times. They just don't get paid for them.

Holidays are at their most expensive because families can only take holidays during these periods too.

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4 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

There was a pay rise that year. It wasn’t implemented at the start of the year but was then as you say backdated 

There was then a further increase in the same financial year. 

You're right about the last couple of years. That's the same as other local government employees got 

Not that you'll see that as relevant  

My experience is that people who earn more than teachers support inflation matching wage rises as it's a graduate job with a significant degree of responsibility.

It tends to be those who earn less who get in a tizzy. There seems to be a real bitterness that other people are getting higher % wage rises. I fully support ALL council/govt employees getting meaningful increases. It's divide and conquer.

Teaching wages have fallen significantly below the amount expected due to inflation over the last 20 years. 

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3 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I would assume the detail of their contract. Obviously I haven't read them, but here is a discussion on P&Bs favourite sister site that might help you

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4494245-are-teachers-paid-in-the-holidays

That's referring to England and is relevant only to temporary positions.

I'm pretty certain you've got this wrong.

 

It's really no different from most jobs.  An annual salary is divided into 12 monthly parts.

There is a holiday entitlement.  Differences here are that the holiday entitlement is more generous than in many jobs.  These holidays, however, must be taken at given points in the year.

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1 minute ago, Am Featha *****h Nan Clach said:

My experience is that people who earn more than teachers support inflation matching wage rises as it's a graduate job with a significant degree of responsibility.

It tends to be those who earn less who get in a tizzy. There seems to be a real bitterness that other people are getting higher % wage rises. I fully support ALL council/govt employees getting meaningful increases. It's divide and conquer.

Teaching wages have fallen significantly below the amount expected due to inflation over the last 20 years. 

There are a number of graduate jobs with a significant degree of responsibility in local government. 

I work in one if them.

There are 4 bargaining groups within local government  

Teachers, single status, craft and chief officers. 

As a rule the latter ask for no better or worse than other groups. 

The focus of the middle two has largely been on increasing the wages of the lowest paid in the last few years  

Teachers are a group apart.

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13 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It's really no different from most jobs.  An annual salary is divided into 12 monthly parts.

The number of parts isn't relevant. The number of contracted days the pay that is divided into those parts is calculated over is.

Teachers are contracted to work 39 weeks. They get 8 weeks paid holiday. That is 10.8 months

The remaining 1.2 months of the year they are not paid for.

Edited by Todd_is_God
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