The years of discontent, 2022/23

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Are you aware of how many families have some parents who can no longer work through disability or are on zero hours contracts? There are many families that have gone through illness, redundancy or divorce that magnifies the problem.

Some parents can no longer work - the bulk of two parent households do in fact work though. 

Quote

Many parents have to go back to work after paternity leave to make ends meet or keep their job and the nursery care fees are very expensive to say the least. When our kids were under two we were paying well in excess of our monthly mortgage on nursery fees.

Which part of this is supposed to be the state's priority to solve right now?

If both parents are going back to work then that is a choice that they have made because it is worth more to them than the cost of childcare. So you can add that second household income to the other side of the ledger.  Meanwhile the state now provides significant levels of free childcare in Scotland so your personal anecdote is redundant. 

This is all just special pleading, when in most cases a two parent household income is nowhere near £25k a year between them. 

[SuperSaints1877]

9 minutes ago, virginton said:

Some parents can no longer work - the bulk of two parent households do in fact work though. 

Which part of this is supposed to be the state's priority to solve right now?

If both parents are going back to work then that is a choice that they have made because it is worth more to them than the cost of childcare. So you can add that second household income to the other side of the ledger.  Meanwhile the state now provides significant levels of free childcare in Scotland so your personal anecdote is redundant. 

This is all just special pleading, when in most cases a two parent household income is nowhere near £25k a year between them. 

So I will take it from that response that you have no experience of bringing up a family seeing as you chose to ignore the question. Am I correct? Or are you just in denial?

We were living in England when my kids were under two years of age.

Free childcare when we returned to Scotland was not available to us all those year ago until they were 4 but spaces were extremely limited. So my anecdote is not redundant it is fact.

There is no free childcare for kids under 3years in Scotland unless you qualify for certain benefits.

We had no choice but to return to work when both kids were 3months old. So the situation is still very challenging for parents with young kids close together in age.

[SuperSaints1877]

Just now, oaksoft said:

This discussion is about people right at the bottom of the pile who are going to either starve or freeze to death. getting emergency support from the government to stay afloat.

What is all this distracting, wittering shite about bringing up families on £25k and above being difficult? Literally not a single person on here is claiming having kids is easy. It's all part of the decision process everybody goes through when we have them in the first place.

The government need to step in to help those who literally cannot heat and eat. They cannot be there to remove any and all of life's difficulties from those who earn around the average salary or above. The money isn't available.

When were you last earning £25K and bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, running a car, etc?

[SuperSaints1877]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

Recently enough that I know exactly what I'm talking about.

You were running your own business and employing family members. You did not have infants employed did you?

[SuperSaints1877]

I also pointed this out earlier @oaksoft but you chose to ignore it.

Many working people have taken out mortgages on historic low interest rates, car loans, broadband, mobile contracts etc. They will be affected big time as they still need to pay these off. Many are up to their necks in credit card debt. 

Then you have the working young who are on low pay and zero hours contracts. Landlords will raise the rent to keep pace with their rising costs. Some of them will have car loans, broadband, mobile contracts and CC debt. 

Then you have those who have been made redundant in either of those categories. 

Then you have the long term unemployed, the sick, disabled and OAPs who for many years have struggled to eat or heat in winter.

Foodbanks are already struggling to cope. It’s going to be a very challenging winter for many people. 

I think you are out of touch with the harsh realities that many “ordinary” people are facing right now. 

We have had the impact of Brexit, Coronavirus pandemic and now a war that will affect many millions worldwide.

[SuperSaints1877]

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

 

Literally not a single person on here is claiming having kids is easy. It's all part of the decision process everybody goes through when we have them in the first place.

Not everyone plans on having kids. Sometimes they happen when you least expect it. We don’t all live in your nirvana.

[SuperSaints1877]

Just now, oaksoft said:

None of that is the responsibility of the government. You cannot expect future generations to pay the bills if you've overstretched yourself and left no room for error.

Agreed I never said it was. You and I know many people over stretch themselves and others are fine until they lose their ability to work through ill health or redundancy.
The Government found ways to bail out the overstretched banking industry. That same banking industry is responsible for irresponsible lending based on affordability rules. It’s way too easy to get credit, a car loan or a mortgage these days. 
The point I’m trying to make is that there are significant areas of the population struggling right now and it will get worse come the winter. 

[SuperSaints1877]

12 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I know exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to supporting a family on that sort of household income..

In the words of Mick Lynch. 
LIAR. 

You have already boasted about only employing family members as you hate other people. Your kids were all grown up when you sold your business. So you can’t say that in the last few years you were struggling to pay a mortgage, pay nursery fees, etc on £25K total household income. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by SuperSaints1877

[Left Back]

10 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Agreed I never said it was. You and I know many people over stretch themselves and others are fine until they lose their ability to work through ill health or redundancy.
The Government found ways to bail out the overstretched banking industry. That same banking industry is responsible for irresponsible lending based on affordability rules. It’s way too easy to get credit, a car loan or a mortgage these days. 
The point I’m trying to make is that there are significant areas of the population struggling right now and it will get worse come the winter. 

Why did you cite them as an example of people that would be struggling in a discussion about who the government/taxpayer should be supporting then?

[Derry Alli]

[SuperSaints1877]

1 minute ago, Left Back said:

Why did you cite them as an example of people that would be struggling in a discussion about who the government/taxpayer should be supporting then?

Because some people are still facing extreme hardship through illness, disability or redundancy but still have prior financial commitments to pay. The title of the thread does not make it clear that those types should be ignored. I’m sorry.

I would like to see the Government go after the tax avoidance carried out by multinational companies and individuals doing business in the UK but pay minimal taxes. That is unfair and immoral.

We need measures in place to help all people in need. 

[Ross.]

5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

And that bit in bold is the entire problem.

I know this is counter-intuitive but whether your company can afford the pay rise isn't relevant. It's also galling but irrelevant what directors and company owners are paid.

If these general staff pay rises go through it won't matter whether they are deserved or not. It'll cause an explosion in inflation and before you know it everyone will be back on here complaining about their 9% pay rise not being enough to cope with 18% inflation and 10% interest rates.

This is exactly what happened in the 70s and to fix it required the Thatcher years.

That is the bigger picture of what risks we face.

Can you provide evidence that wage push inflation was actually a major reason for what happened in the 70’s?

There are parallels with the oil price rising sharply and the pound being devalued just before the start of that decade(As it has been with Brexit), now you also have Covid causing serious supply chain issues and the effects of Ukraine/Russia outside of the energy side of things, all of this coming off the back of a 15 year run of QE, but nothing to date is down to wage increases. Inflation is rampant thanks to myriad reasons, the average punter is not one of them and giving pay rises in line with inflation will likely have minimal impact on it, especially when the BOE bumps the interest rate up another % or so and folk have to find another few hundred quid a month to cover mortgage and rent increases.

[Deanburn Dave]

I read a book by leftwinger Owen Jones called "The Establishment and how they get away with it." Made it clear to me we have different rules for them and us. The taxation/financial pages were mind blowing.

You need to read this book, build barricades and start fighting them.

[101]

It would be interesting to know what that 7% equalled in cash terms.

[SuperSaints1877]

5 minutes ago, 101 said:

It would be interesting to know what that 7% equalled in cash terms.

The company's chief executive Matthew Gregory, who is paid £635,000 a year. Roughly works out at £45,000. That salary was from 2020, so it is likely higher and may not include bonus or pension, etc.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-8875757/Bosses-rail-operator-FirstGroup-return-salaries.html

[DA Baracus]

A salary of £25k equates to roughly £1700 take home a month, assuming nothing is taken for student loans.

I've never had to raise a family, but would imagine it would be tight on that salary. Anyone on that hoping to save for their own home will never actually get to own said home. The money needed for a deposit etc is so far out of the reach of so many people, let alone those earning £25k, let alone those earning £25k and having to raise/fees a family too.

Those fortunate enough to own their own homes won't have to worry about that, but I don't imagine too many folk who take home £1700 a month will own a house/flat with enough bedrooms for a family given the lending criteria and time it would take to save. 

That's all an aside anyway.

Rent, council tax, fuel bills, phone bills, food for a family, petrol, other car costs, clothing etc, nursery fees and all the other things needed will add up very quickly, especially since every single one of them continues to increase at a rate wages long ago stopped being able to even pretend to keep up with.

[Bairnardo]

A salary of £25k equates to roughly £1700 take home a month, assuming nothing is taken for student loans.
I've never had to raise a family, but would imagine it would be tight on that salary. Anyone on that hoping to save for their own home will never actually get to own said home. The money needed for a deposit etc is so far out of the reach of so many people, let alone those earning £25k, let alone those earning £25k and having to raise/fees a family too.
Those fortunate enough to own their own homes won't have to worry about that, but I don't imagine too many folk who take home £1700 a month will own a house/flat with enough bedrooms for a family given the lending criteria and time it would take to save. 
That's all an aside anyway.
Rent, council tax, fuel bills, phone bills, food for a family, petrol, other car costs, clothing etc, nursery fees and all the other things needed will add up very quickly, especially since every single one of them continues to increase at a rate wages long ago stopped being able to even pretend to keep up with.

Yeah but rather than being greedy and unreasonable by asking for more, you can just cut back all of your frivolities, and lead a mere existence for you are your kids until it becomes ok again by the gammons to ask for some more crumbs off the big table.

[Aufc]

Yeah but rather than being greedy and unreasonable by asking for more, you can just cut back all of your frivolities, and lead a mere existence for you are your kids until it becomes ok again by the gammons to ask for some more crumbs off the big table.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] what a fanny

[SweeperDee]

My missus and I fall in at that circa £25k P/A bracket, rent a top floor in a 1up/down, run a car, look after a dog, pay council tax, professional licensing costs, pet insurance, food for ourselves, electricity, and our own personal debts/bills. My old man passed away a month and a bit ago now with no will, nothing really in terms of assets and I’m having to foot solicitor/half funeral costs, what am I supposed to cut out to cover unexpected costs like that? Could apply for help, but would probably be told since me and my partner earn “around” 25k we won’t be eligible. 25k a year isn’t all that comfortable anymore, even more so with fuel prices and inflation. Not a lot of jobs going in my line of work as well, and that’s with a masters level education.

[Shotgun]

The CEO-to-worker compensation ratio was 21-to-1 in 1965. It peaked at 366-to-1 in 2000. In 2020 the ratio was 351-to-1. This ratio is now far higher than at any point in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s.*

The people at the bottom of the shit heap have been penalised for the greed and incompetence of the wealthy through (how many years?) of austerity and are now being told things will get even worse. All while the rich continue to award themselves ever higher salaries, bonuses, stock options and other perks. All in it together, aye?

Still, as long as the poor "just cut back on their expenditures” they’ll be fine.

 

 

* This is for the USA but I can't imagine the numbers will be drastically different in the UK.