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Permutations for relegation from West Premier - 5 clubs?


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There is a possibility that five clubs could be relegated from Premier Division (according to Wikipedia) and I'm just trying to get my head round it.

Highland League club beats Lowland League club in play-off, then beats Club 42 SPFL who ends up being relegated to Lowland League.

WoSFL Premier Division winner isn't Licenced or loses play-off to East/South winner.

Bottom two clubs in Lowland League are in WoSFL "region." (East Kilbride, Caledonian Braves, Cumbernauld Colts, Open Goal Broomhill)

Is this correct?

What would have to happen for four clubs to be relegated from WoSFL Premier?

 

Edited by theesel1994
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Guessing that the aim is five Divisions of 16 clubs so 80 in total.

If that's the aim and no club wins promotion to the Lowland League, and none are received from the Lowland, then it would be 3 up 3 down except for Division 3 which would need to relegate 6 clubs (not 5). 

Glensmad has previously posted something to the effect that the Premier Division would run with one or two extra clubs for a season if there were more clubs received from the Lowland League than promoted to it from the WOSL. If so then what happens the next season would have to be sorted out at the AGM before the season starts.

Quite a flexible arrangement, although there's a chance that things could go wrong if say clubs from the EOS (or SOS) won the promotion places for two or three seasons in a row.

Edited by Dev
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7 minutes ago, Dev said:

Glensmad has previously posted something to the effect that the Premier Division would run with one or two extra clubs for a season if there were more clubs received from the Lowland League than promoted to it from the WOSL. If so then what happens the next season would have to be sorted out at the AGM before the season starts.

Quite a flexible arrangement, although there's a chance that things could go wrong if say clubs from the EOS (or SOS) won the promotion places for two or three seasons in a row.

Well, the AGM was yesterday - I wonder if anything was agreed. @glensmad ?

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18 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

There is a possibility that five clubs could be relegated from Premier Division (according to Wikipedia) and I'm just trying to get my head round it.

Highland League club beats Lowland League club in play-off, then beats Club 42 SPFL who ends up being relegated to Lowland League.

WoSFL Premier Division winner isn't Licenced or loses play-off to East/South winner.

Bottom two clubs in Lowland League are in WoSFL "region." (East Kilbride, Caledonian Braves, Cumbernauld Colts, Open Goal Broomhill)

Is this correct?

What would have to happen for four clubs to be relegated from WoSFL Premier?

 

+2 Scenario is right.

Highland Champion promoted - Club 42 relegated to Lowland League - Bottom 2 of the Lowland relegated to the WoSFL - WoS Premier Champion not promoted

However, in such a scenario in the EoSFL they've elected not to relegate two extra teams on down. It would go to 18 for the following season and work its way down, rather than all at once.

The +1 scenario i'm going to assume they just relegate 4 clubs instead of 3.

Don't think we have to worry about +2 for quite some time under the current format. +1 Might take a while to occur as well.

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1 minute ago, theesel1994 said:

Well, the AGM was yesterday - I wonder if anything was agreed. @glensmad ?

I was referring to possibilities at the end of the coming season (2022/23) i.e. the AGM before 2023/24.

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Glensmad has previously posted something to the effect that the Premier Division would run with one or two extra clubs for a season if there were more clubs received from the Lowland League than promoted to it from the WOSL.


I don't think I have actually.

The OP is correct, there is an unlikely possibility that as many as five teams could be relegated from each league under the current promotion and relegation arrangements. It could also be as few as two.
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2 hours ago, glensmad said:


 

 


I don't think I have actually.

The OP is correct, there is an unlikely possibility that as many as five teams could be relegated from each league under the current promotion and relegation arrangements. It could also be as few as two.

 

Thanks for clarifying that.

Is it proposed to get Division 3 down to 16 clubs in 12 months time regardless to what  happens outside the Division? 

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6 hours ago, theesel1994 said:

There is a possibility that five clubs could be relegated from Premier Division (according to Wikipedia) and I'm just trying to get my head round it.

Highland League club beats Lowland League club in play-off, then beats Club 42 SPFL who ends up being relegated to Lowland League.

WoSFL Premier Division winner isn't Licenced or loses play-off to East/South winner.

Bottom two clubs in Lowland League are in WoSFL "region." (East Kilbride, Caledonian Braves, Cumbernauld Colts, Open Goal Broomhill)

Is this correct?

What would have to happen for four clubs to be relegated from WoSFL Premier?

 

Believe 9 out of 20 would have went down this summer had the Highland League beat Club 42 followed by Darvel losing and Cumbernauld Colts and Broomhill say, coming down.

We've joined a multi feeder pyramid.

Anything can play out in this scenario.

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3 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

Believe 9 out of 20 would have went down this summer had the Highland League beat Club 42 followed by Darvel losing and Cumbernauld Colts and Broomhill say, coming down.

We've joined a multi feeder pyramid.

Anything can play out in this scenario.

It's not really anything though is it? You've just explained the one scenario it could have happened.

One that it still yet to happen for the West of Scotland side of things. The EoS have more to worry about with that happening.

 

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Long term and if the pyramid is to work for the Wosfl, then we must except our top teams will leave and probably not come back.

I don't think say Cumbernauld Colts, Broomhill, Caldonian Braves or an Albion Rovers would add anything to the Wosfl.

Other make up the numbers.

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4 hours ago, glensmad said:


 

 


I don't think I have actually.

The OP is correct, there is an unlikely possibility that as many as five teams could be relegated from each league under the current promotion and relegation arrangements. It could also be as few as two.

 

On a number of occasions you have said 3 up 3 down without adding in depending on promotion/relegation from the LL.

3 can go up but it might 3/4/5 coming down from the top Wosfl league.

That in turn would have a domino effect in the leagues below.

Just 3 up 3 down was a wee bit lazy on your part.

Enjoy your holiday btw.

lol

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It is 3 UP from all Divisions apart from the Premier Division.

That is set in stone.

Relegation will be the amount of teams required to bring all Divisions to 16 teams apart from Division 4.

If there is no loss or gain at the top of the Premier Division (no team up to LL, no team down from LL) it will be 3 down from Premier to First, 3 down from First to Second, 3 down from Second to Third, 6 down from third to Fourth

If there is a net gain of 1 club from the LL it will be 4 down from Premier to First, 4 down from First to Second, 4 down from Second to Third, 7 down from third to Fourth

If there is a net gain of 2 clubs from the LL it will be 5 down from Premier to First, 5 down from First to Second, 5 down from Second to Third, 8 down from third to Fourth

If there is a net loss of 1 club to the LL it will be 2 down from Premier to First, 2 down from First to Second, 2 down from Second to Third, 5 down from third to Fourth.

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6 hours ago, Kennie said:

It is 3 UP from all Divisions apart from the Premier Division.

That is set in stone.

Relegation will be the amount of teams required to bring all Divisions to 16 teams apart from Division 4.

If there is no loss or gain at the top of the Premier Division (no team up to LL, no team down from LL) it will be 3 down from Premier to First, 3 down from First to Second, 3 down from Second to Third, 6 down from third to Fourth

If there is a net gain of 1 club from the LL it will be 4 down from Premier to First, 4 down from First to Second, 4 down from Second to Third, 7 down from third to Fourth

If there is a net gain of 2 clubs from the LL it will be 5 down from Premier to First, 5 down from First to Second, 5 down from Second to Third, 8 down from third to Fourth

If there is a net loss of 1 club to the LL it will be 2 down from Premier to First, 2 down from First to Second, 2 down from Second to Third, 5 down from third to Fourth.

That does not seem a very sustainable model to work on every year, the uncertainty for clubs will have a detrimental affect on clubs planning for the following season,   as most clubs start their planning for the following season before their season ends,  a club who finishes 12th in the league and thinks their safe then events outside the league mean they get relegated.  Does not sit right with me.  I could understand last seasons relegation scenario as we were re-constructing the leagues. But we should not have a situation every season where it will be possible for a third of the league to be relegated.  

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11 minutes ago, beithboy said:

That does not seem a very sustainable model to work on every year, the uncertainty for clubs will have a detrimental affect on clubs planning for the following season,   as most clubs start their planning for the following season before their season ends,  a club who finishes 12th in the league and thinks their safe then events outside the league mean they get relegated.  Does not sit right with me.  I could understand last seasons relegation scenario as we were re-constructing the leagues. But we should not have a situation every season where it will be possible for a third of the league to be relegated.  

The vast majority of the scenarios will be ruled out for the WoSFL over the course of the season. The gain of 2 especially.

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2 hours ago, KRayr said:

What an absolute shitshow of uncertainty.  

If you want certainty, make sure you finish in 11th or higher. 

Finishing 12th - 14th, means you could be affected by events outside your control. As FWF says, all will become clearer as the season progresses.

The rules have been set, so nobody should be surprised at the end of the season.

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1 hour ago, beithboy said:

That does not seem a very sustainable model to work on every year, the uncertainty for clubs will have a detrimental affect on clubs planning for the following season,   as most clubs start their planning for the following season before their season ends,  a club who finishes 12th in the league and thinks their safe then events outside the league mean they get relegated.  Does not sit right with me.  I could understand last seasons relegation scenario as we were re-constructing the leagues. But we should not have a situation every season where it will be possible for a third of the league to be relegated.  

See Benburb for details 

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The Lowland League typically finishes 2 weeks earlier than the SPFL lower divisions regular season. Worse case scenario clubs will have at least a 2 week window to motivate themselves to get to a definitively safe spot. Although it would usually be clearer long before then.

Getting into a tizzy over this is no difference than last year's 9 down.

7 SPFL Playoffs and it's only worked out once for the Lowland League to relegate 2 clubs.

The lowest West of Scotland area clubs have finished: 5th bottom, 5th bottom, 9th bottom, 10th bottom, 7th bottom, 7th bottom, 8th bottom*, 4th bottom*, 4th bottom

Quite frankly, the +1/+2 concern is something that the EoSFL has to worry about due to the make up of the LL clubs at the moment.

 

 

 

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