South Region Challenge Cup 2022-23

[Spyro]

20 hours ago, bobbydazzler said:

think the competition would probably be boosted by getting an old style junior cup final. an old rivalry, in a decent stadium would defo see a big crowd.

They had Bonnyrigg vs Talbot last season and it was pish, flat as fk. Don't even think the fact it was at Falkirk made a difference. It was just embarrassing having to choose a side due to segregation as it felt like a preseason friendly. 

I don't know what the answer is, but it's got potential to be an amazing competition if teams actually bothered

[jimbaxters]

29 minutes ago, Spyro said:

They had Bonnyrigg vs Talbot last season and it was pish, flat as fk. Don't even think the fact it was at Falkirk made a difference. It was just embarrassing having to choose a side due to segregation as it felt like a preseason friendly. 

I don't know what the answer is, but it's got potential to be an amazing competition if teams actually bothered

So it's the teams' fault?

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

So it's the teams' fault?

Nope.

Bonnyrigg had just spent the previous 4 weeks going through the SPFL Play-offs. Talbot had the Junior Cup final on their minds. The SCC didn't have prize money or even a split gate, meaning no incentive for the clubs to heavily promote the SCC compared to their other events. As we've all seen they're quite poor at promoting themselves.

 

[Spyro]

1 hour ago, jimbaxters said:

So it's the teams' fault?

It was both teams who didn't look interested 

[imcvicar]

There was more at a final between Clydebank FC 2010’s and Drumchapel Utd 2010’s. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by imcvicar

[PossilYM]

Why not just rename it the Scottish Challenge Cup.

[glensmad]

2 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

Why not just rename it the Scottish Challenge Cup.

Because it is not a full Scottish competition, none of the teams from the Highland League and its feeder leagues are involved.

[PossilYM]

3 minutes ago, glensmad said:

Because it is not a full Scottish competition, none of the teams from the Highland League and its feeder leagues are involved.

You ask them and they say no, tough.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

There's nothing to stop a name change though and North/South became a bit outdated when Highland/Lowland became the shorthand, as well as the North Challenge mothballed. 

Scottish Lowland Challenge Cup seems simple enough. I'm almost convinced at this point a name change hasn't happened because they're too cheap for a new trophy or engraver. 

[jimbaxters]

Whichever one of the many options given for the attendance at the final it actually was, it's a right dismal do. The organisers must have looked around them and thought the same. That should be the biggest incentive to change something and if they don't do so then they need drop kicked. It's actually an embarrassment at the moment.

[ibenji]

On 30/05/2023 at 00:09, ekok said:

 Suggest we need to let the Junior Cup evolve as it will.

 

Evolution and the SJFA aren’t exactly something you’d put together

Ideally a national cup at tier 5 and below is the way forward however the highland league teams don’t appear to be interested. If a third party not attached to the juniors or the current organisations in the pyramid were to come up with something, that was funded with decent prize money and sponsorship then it might take off but sadly can’t see anything but the the status quo 

[Greenmachine]

On 30/05/2023 at 12:44, glensmad said:

Because it is not a full Scottish competition, none of the teams from the Highland League and its feeder leagues are involved.

They still call it the Scottish junior cup yet there’s virtually no entries from the east of Scotland.

[Cairn Cheerleader]

58 minutes ago, Greenmachine said:

They still call it the Scottish junior cup yet there’s virtually no entries from the east of Scotland.

That's through choice of the clubs though, there not going to change a name just because teams from an area don't enter it.

junior cup still is far and away the top cup competition for me. 25k for winners and 17k for runners up plus on tv and will no doubt have around 3 to 4000 supporters.

south challenge cup for me just gets in the way now

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Cairn Cheerleader said:

junior cup still is far and away the top cup competition for me. 25k for winners and 17k for runners up plus on tv and will no doubt have around 3 to 4000 supporters.

Where does the 25k come from? Rules have it as an equal split between the finalists with a 17k guarantee. Yoker & Talbot last year getting 17.5k each.

[Ginaro]

9 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

Whichever one of the many options given for the attendance at the final it actually was, it's a right dismal do. The organisers must have looked around them and thought the same. That should be the biggest incentive to change something and if they don't do so then they need drop kicked. It's actually an embarrassment at the moment.

What would you like them to do - arrange it so that the final is played between two decently supported West of Scotland clubs who haven't won a cup in 10-15 years and finished 9th in their respective divisions? 

I'm being funny but there is only so much that can be done promotion-wise if the teams involved don't attract or bring fans. The Junior Cup obviously has the history, money, and a TV deal, but the final has basically been played between two West/Ayrshire clubs at Rugby Park for almost 10 years. Unlike the South Challenge Cup which has yet to be played between two West clubs.

That's not surprising though as the Junior Cup is basically a WOS Cup the latter stages. While the SCC has a more even spread of Lowland, East and West teams.

2 hours ago, Cairn Cheerleader said:

junior cup still is far and away the top cup competition for me. 25k for winners and 17k for runners up plus on tv and will no doubt have around 3 to 4000 supporters.

south challenge cup for me just gets in the way now

Assuming its 3000 fans on Friday with half(?) of them concessions then gate receipts will come to £22,500 - thus almost covering the £12k "prize money" for each finalist. 

Obviously unlike the SJFA, the South Challenge Cup doesn't have that luxury in terms of gates or the ability to subsidise the guarantee if enough fans don't turn up (but it does use its funds to subsidise travel expenses).

Edited May 31, 2023 by Ginaro

[Greenmachine]

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

What would you like them to do - arrange it so that the final is played between two decently supported West of Scotland clubs who haven't won a cup in 10-15 years and finished 9th in their respective divisions? 

I'm being funny but there is only so much that can be done promotion-wise if the teams involved don't attract or bring fans. The Junior Cup obviously has the history, money, and a TV deal, but the final has basically been played between two West/Ayrshire clubs at Rugby Park for almost 10 years. Unlike the South Challenge Cup which has yet to be played between two West clubs.

That's not surprising though as the Junior Cup is basically a WOS Cup the latter stages. While the SCC has a more even spread of Lowland, East and West teams.

Assuming its 3000 fans on Friday with half(?) of them concessions then gate receipts will come to £22,500 - thus covering the £12k "prize money" for each finalist. 

Obviously unlike the SJFA, the South Challenge Cup doesn't have that luxury in terms of gates or the ability to subsidise the guarantee if enough fans don't turn up (but it does use its funds to subsidise travel expenses).

Most clubs will lose money in the Junior cup as it’s either West or North in the early rounds.

Its totally devalued for people who know about non league football.Obviously there’s carry over for non football people who probably think it’s the same competition it always was.That’s far from the case now.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Greenmachine

[Shanner]

Generating several of the highest attendances in Non-League football this season = totally devalued. 

There's nothing quite like blindly refusing to acknowledge any evidence that might suggest your position may be just a bit flawed.

No, just ignore inconvenient facts and keep repeating the same demonstrably incorrect points and it's almost the same as being right (or something). 

 

[Greenmachine]

1 hour ago, Shanner said:

Generating several of the highest attendances in Non-League football this season = totally devalued. 

There's nothing quite like blindly refusing to acknowledge any evidence that might suggest your position may be just a bit flawed.

No, just ignore inconvenient facts and keep repeating the same demonstrably incorrect points and it's almost the same as being right (or something). 

 

Two of the  bigger supported teams in the west aren’t in it along with 99% of the East clubs but yes it’s the same competition

[Bestsinceslicebread]

2 hours ago, Shanner said:

Generating several of the highest attendances in Non-League football this season = totally devalued. 

There's nothing quite like blindly refusing to acknowledge any evidence that might suggest your position may be just a bit flawed.

No, just ignore inconvenient facts and keep repeating the same demonstrably incorrect points and it's almost the same as being right (or something). 

 

I'm not hear to put the junior cup down, there's interest in it, so that is without doubt so true.

In regards to your post, your really calling the pot kettle black are you not by ignoring facts.
If your trying to prove a point, inform of the positives and negatives, is that not best?

The South Challenge cup has nothing to do with the junior cup, its just badly advertised and arranged.
There were some suggestions on here how it should be improved and that's something that the organizers of the SCC should take it and hopefully improve the interest in the cup.
So haven't got a clue why people who support the junior cup are on here trying to put the pros on for the SJC and cons on for the SCC when its two totally different cups

I'm asking you the questions
* Did the South Challenge Cup 22/23 have 163 entrants from the East, West and South of Scotland all the while the Scottish junior cup only had 108 entrants from the whole country, is this correct?

* Can you tell me why there was more teams involved in the SCC than the SJC and a higher quality?

* Many Highland, North and East of Scotland teams and a few West teams did not enter the junior cup this year 22/23, do you know why?

* Quite a few teams took huge losses in the earlier rounds of the junior cup 22/23 in regards travelling, Some spending £800 odds a pop travelling long distance and only getting £220 /£260 towards the travel, giving teams over £500 loss or more. Did you know this, regarding the travelling expenses.

* Outwit the junior cup, there isn't an apatite for a national trophy, from what I've heard from the past couple of years, the Highlands, North and East are not really interested, would that be fair to say? 

Me personally, I would like a national non league trophy but can't see it happening for a while.    I genuinely loved playing in the junior cup but its outdated and is genuinely becoming less of an interest for many but as you concluded which I wholeheartedly agree with that there is still interest so I don't think it should be binned.
 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Thejackdaw]

23 minutes ago, Greenmachine said:

Two of the  bigger supported teams in the west aren’t in it along with 99% of the East clubs but yes it’s the same competition

They just don't get it mate    its like taking 99 percent of the top south American teams out the world cup and saying you've still got the same world cup.  (In terms of real top nations it would probably just turn into a glorified European championship in the same way as the current junior cup has turned into a glorified West of Scotland cup ) 

 

Regardless of the crowd on Friday night  , regardless of how some on here want to try and ham it up , the Scottish cup is a very poor shadow of its former self and I would say the same if the club I supported contested this final. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Thejackdaw