September 2022 Scotland squad

[Loominous]

We undervalue Ukrainian players if we assume that they aren't good enough to play at a higher level just because they play for Shakhtar or Dynamo. That logic can also force at best conclusions which are hard to verify and at worst incorrect when trying to fit facts into a general theory as we've seen with the discussion on Celtic's Callum McGregor or as @Satoshi referenced with Scott Brown's and his sister.

Relating that back to the original point. Can we infer how good the Ukrainian centre-backs are because they both play in the Ukrainian Premier League? I'd say no - There is a  myriad of reasons or circumstances why any player may choose not to move to a top-5 league unique to each individual circumstance. Can we base an argument and draw conclusions about our own defensive setup centred on the logic outlined above? Again, not for me.

It's common for fans to make conclusions based on generalisations. Fans typically don't have the full picture when forming opinions and the detail is important in the decisions that are made.

[Satoshi]

36 minutes ago, Pie Of The Month said:

The 98-99% who didn't believe it would be right to be fair to them.

Feyenoord (UEFA Cup 2002 and Conference League 2022) and Ajax (Europa League 2017) have been European finalists since the turn of the millennium.

I didn't count the conference league as it is isn't a second tier (or top tier) European competition.

For the same reason, I didn't check the intertoto cup.

If you do then they equal Scotland's record, correct.

And overall the because x plays in Ukraine and therefore isn't good is a crap argument, Mudryk looks an excellent player and players for Shakhtar (who have been a good European team for 10-15 years).

[craigkillie]

The Conference League is clearly a major European competition, just look at the teams who are in it. The UEFA Cup itself used to be the third tier UEFA competition prior to the Cup Winners' Cup being merged into it.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Loominous said:

We undervalue Ukrainian players if we assume that they aren't good enough to play at a higher level just because they play for Shakhtar or Dynamo. That logic can also force at best conclusions which are hard to verify and at worst incorrect when trying to fit facts into a general theory as we've seen with the discussion on Celtic's Callum McGregor or as @Satoshi referenced with Scott Brown's and his sister.

Relating that back to the original point. Can we infer how good the Ukrainian centre-backs are because they both play in the Ukrainian Premier League? I'd say no - There is a  myriad of reasons or circumstances why any player may choose not to move to a top-5 league unique to each individual circumstance. Can we base an argument and draw conclusions about our own defensive setup centred on the logic outlined above? Again, not for me.

It's common for fans to make conclusions based on generalisations. Fans typically don't have the full picture when forming opinions and the detail is important in the decisions that are made.

I think what I actually said at first regarding generalisations has been forgotten.

On 17/09/2022 at 01:08, BingMcCrosby said:

Of course, because someone specific plays in whats considered a better league it doesn't automatically make them a better player than someone specific who doesn't. But in general better players will play in better leagues.

Does anyone disagree that in general better players play in better leagues?

[Loominous]

50 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I think what I actually said at first regarding generalisations has been forgotten.

Does anyone disagree that in general better players play in better leagues?

Sorry, I didn't mean to give that impression. It's more how the generalisation was used in support of an argument for changing an aspect of our team setup rather than the generalisation itself that I don't agree with.

[Satoshi]

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

The Conference League is clearly a major European competition, just look at the teams who are in it. The UEFA Cup itself used to be the third tier UEFA competition prior to the Cup Winners' Cup being merged into it.
 

The Cup Winners cup was abolished in 1999.

I was looking post millennium at the tier one and tier two European competition.

But if you want to include the tier three competition it's not a big problem, and it doesn't change much. I don't think it affects what I said in the slightest, apart from the Netherlands matching Scotland (as opposed to being one behind).

[2426255]

• John McGinn can reach 50 caps for Scotland if he plays a part in 2 of the 3 games in September. He is currently on 48.
• Ryan Fraser and Lyndon Dykes can reach 25 caps if they play a part in all three games. Both are currently on 22 caps.

Thought it was worth mentioning. It's great to see the international experience being built over time with a consistent squad. In the coming years I'm hopeful it will really help us.

[Donathan]

Hanley out. Disaster.

[Donathan]

Brown and McLaughlin also out. McCrorie called up.

[PSJ.84]

Felt we were short on centre halves in the first place, but now…

[2426255]

It is what it is and we'll just have to deal with it. McLaughlin, Brown and Hanley were all injury doubts before the weekend so I'm sure while this is maybe news to fans it's something the Scotland staff were aware of and have made provision for in some form.

[lubo_blaha]

McTominay, Hendry, Porteous, McKenna and Tierney covering three CB places. Not ideal at all, was hoping to see McT in the midfield in these games as well.

A bit light up front as well.

[craigkillie]

I don't expect to see it, but I do think Greg Taylor has a lot of the necessary attributes to play the Tierney role. Maybe just a wee bit small, but Tierney's not exactly massive himself.

[Lyle Lanley]

1 hour ago, lubo_blaha said:

McTominay, Hendry, Porteous, McKenna and Tierney covering three CB places. Not ideal at all, was hoping to see McT in the midfield in these games as well.

A bit light up front as well.

McTominay, Hendry, McKenna it is. 

[thruthenight]

56 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I don't expect to see it, but I do think Greg Taylor has a lot of the necessary attributes to play the Tierney role. Maybe just a wee bit small, but Tierney's not exactly massive himself.

Playing Taylor at CB and getting humped because of it would be a 4-6-0 style disaster that would destroy all of the goodwill Clarke has built up with the supporters.

We're really struggling at CB, but who else could we draft in? Halkett would have been likely to get a call up if he was fit, but I'm struggling to see who else.

[General dissaray]

1 hour ago, thruthenight said:

Playing Taylor at CB and getting humped because of it would be a 4-6-0 style disaster that would destroy all of the goodwill Clarke has built up with the supporters.

We're really struggling at CB, but who else could we draft in? Halkett would have been likely to get a call up if he was fit, but I'm struggling to see who else.

Tom McIntyre would be good Reading are sitting third also Murray Wallace at Millwall hasn't had a chance they play every week

Liam Lindsay playing every week at Preston to so there is a few options not keen on Lindsay but who knows I might be totally wrong about him at least he defends first even if he isn't the best with passing the ball

Edited September 19, 2022 by General dissaray

[craigkillie]

59 minutes ago, thruthenight said:

Playing Taylor at CB and getting humped because of it would be a 4-6-0 style disaster that would destroy all of the goodwill Clarke has built up with the supporters.

We're really struggling at CB, but who else could we draft in? Halkett would have been likely to get a call up if he was fit, but I'm struggling to see who else.

I don't see how it's remotely a 4-6-0 style thing - he played McTominay in the position when he'd hardly played there before, and even Tierney himself hadn't done it a lot before Scotland played him there. I don't think it will happen but I'm just saying I think he has a lot of the attributes.

[craigkillie]

A bit of a rumour that Tommy Conway is being called up from the U21s. Has made a cracking start to the season at Bristol City.

[Craigieboy86]

Scotland need someone replace to Hanley

McIntyre (Reading)

Hyam (Blackburn Rover)

Murray (Milwall)

Lindsay (Preston NE)

Gallagher (St Mirren)

[Loominous]

Wouldn't be surprised if Declan Gallagher was called in as his place in the team was taken by Grant Hanley. Wouldn't be surprised if we just go with what we have as Steve Clarke likes a small squad. If we go with what we have it's a straight choice for me but I can't decide who I'd prefer. I think Jack Hendry edges it if he is sharp enough.

Jack Hendry

• Started alongside McSauce and Tierney in the centre of a back-3 when we beat Israel 3-2 last October while Scott McKenna watched the game from the bench.
• Started in the middle of the back-3 recently in our 2-0 win over Armenia while Scott McKenna was chosen to play on the left of the back-3.
• Hasn't had much club game time so might lack sharpness.
• Could be argued he isn't as physically dominant and aggressive as Hanley or McKenna.

Scott McKenna

• Played alongside McSauce and Tierney in the centre of a back-3 when he replaced an injured Hanley in our 1-3 defeat to Croatia at Euro 2020 after 30 minutes. Jack Hendry wasn't an option as he was left out of the matchday squad for that game.
• Seems well suited on paper to being the middle centre-back but he hasn't ever been preferred for that position. 
• Has been getting good minutes at his club.