Brazilianlex Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 2 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: The LL are already comfortable with teams finishing 4th being nominated champions. They could have an end of season playoff tournament to decide their champions to keep things interesting. Maybe the team that finished 8th could be champions or they could hold a raffle. They have got to consider sporting integrity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Brazilianlex said: Anyone heard from Ian Maxwell yet ? There is no pyramid review. It was an empty promise to get the Colts in, unfortunately half the Clubs bought it. Some of the 8 had been bought long before that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 4 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: Don't think that's anything to do with distance. It's the difference in quality. Ah right, fair enough. But that's just a side effect of the pyramid evening out over time. It should absolutely be moving quicker but in 10 years time it's unlikely you'll have huge quality differences between clubs in tier 5. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 On 23/10/2022 at 18:15, craigiemack said: If the LL was a 10 team league it would be one of the most exciting in Scotland. Honest question -What are the chances of nine of the teams voting themselves out of this division into a lower one? Happy to do that when at least two of the ten places would be taken by colt teams? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigiemack Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Quite a lot of replies so ill try work through them. The main point is the pyramid is flawed and it will never work unless there is a mass resructuring, which in turn would never be voted through. At the end of the day the inbalance between north and south will never create a fluid pyramid. If there is going to be no change in relegation from SPFL2 then i'd like the LL to be either 14/16 teams with 3 going down. It would still mean a lot fo the league are playing for nothing but would surely open up more teams to the prospect of relegation. As shown in the table this season with the tightness of the mid table teams. 3 Champion Clubs going up. Preferably though the SofS goes to Tier 7 and the 2nd place in the East and West play off for the 3rd promotion spot. Again though this will never happen because clubs won't vote for more relegation. My radical change for the pyramid would be for the HL and LL to be replaced by 4 leagues of 12 at Tier 5. A HL, Midlands and Fife, East and West. 2 relegation spots from SPFL2 with a playoff winner from HL/Fife and East/West going up. Perhaps if SPFL2 was increased to 12 then you could have a play off place playing the 2 losers. That way its more localised, particularly in the Highland 'area' and if there was ever a disparity in teams the Falkirk/Stirling/West Lothian/South Fife teams could easily move about leagues to solve this. But nothing will ever change. The SPFL clubs are never going to vote for increased relegation and neither are the LL clubs. The extra hundred fans teams get at Colts games will be enough for them to keep voting them in and eventually when one of them wins the league I would not be surprised if for an extra 5k the rules are changed to grant them the right to promotion. I'm seriously at the point where i wouldn't mind getting relegated this season to just get out the LL, its an absolute stain on fitbaw in Scotland - I'm sure Berwick and Cowden fans will eventually begin leaning the same way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanburn Dave Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 "But nothing will ever change" ...... Correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 By the sounds of things. The preferred option within the LL for increasing relegation was one automatic relegation and one relegation playoff. It'll be a snail's pace for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 While I am fully behind the ideas laid out here and have loved the pyramid getting moving, I think saying "nothing will ever change" is thankfully incorrect. Just look at the changes that have come about since 2016: play off introduction, Midland League formation, Juniors coming into the fold etc. Things are imperfect but there's no justification to say things will never change, as would have been the case in the previous 40 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said: While I am fully behind the ideas laid out here and have loved the pyramid getting moving, I think saying "nothing will ever change" is thankfully incorrect. Just look at the changes that have come about since 2016: play off introduction, Midland League formation, Juniors coming into the fold etc. Things are imperfect but there's no justification to say things will never change, as would have been the case in the previous 40 years. The change in the last 5 or so years has surely been driven the carrot of licensing, the Scottish Cup, as well as progression and moving into a better run setup. Plus, some decisions were taken as there was no other option - e.g. Midlands League going north, WRJFA clubs moving not to be left behind. For there to be change just now it would mean clubs voting against their best interest for something that would negatively affect their club, which is unlikely to happen. And there is no other options for tier 6 as the clubs in leagues above hold the cards. The only thing that is guaranteed is that one club will be promoted from tier 6 each season, and eventually there will be enough clubs in the LL to vote for more relegation (assuming all these promoted clubs vote the same way). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyramid Watcher Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) This won’t be popular, but here goes. The bottleneck was there before the introduction of the B teams, with the SPFL refusing to listen to any advances from the tiers below. The introduction of the B teams has given the SPFL the opportunity to “legitimise” that stance, which obviously takes the focus from them. I don’t personally think the B teams should be in, and their inclusion has widened the gulf in the pyramid, but the problems don’t wholly lie with the LL. Edited October 24, 2022 by Pyramid Watcher 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 11 hours ago, Deanburn Dave said: "But nothing will ever change" ...... Correct. People said that just before the pyramid was set up. I think I'm right when I say that the SFA / SPFL largely left it up to the clubs to come up with a "solution" to what came under League 2. Putting it bluntly, they weren't really that bothered, as long as something was set up. Personally, I reckon that if the same thing happened, and the below League 2 clubs came forward with a united proposal, the SFA / SPFL would back it. But it won't include more than one team out of League 2; the LL hasn't much appeal, what with the colts, the 19 teams etc. No one's going to vote for the prospect of dropping into this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 What's the story with Open Goal Broomhill being allowed to have an advert in their name? I'm very surprised. Are we to pretend that it's not blatant advertising? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden316 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 12 hours ago, craigiemack said: Quite a lot of replies so ill try work through them. The main point is the pyramid is flawed and it will never work unless there is a mass resructuring, which in turn would never be voted through. At the end of the day the inbalance between north and south will never create a fluid pyramid. If there is going to be no change in relegation from SPFL2 then i'd like the LL to be either 14/16 teams with 3 going down. It would still mean a lot fo the league are playing for nothing but would surely open up more teams to the prospect of relegation. As shown in the table this season with the tightness of the mid table teams. 3 Champion Clubs going up. Preferably though the SofS goes to Tier 7 and the 2nd place in the East and West play off for the 3rd promotion spot. Again though this will never happen because clubs won't vote for more relegation. My radical change for the pyramid would be for the HL and LL to be replaced by 4 leagues of 12 at Tier 5. A HL, Midlands and Fife, East and West. 2 relegation spots from SPFL2 with a playoff winner from HL/Fife and East/West going up. Perhaps if SPFL2 was increased to 12 then you could have a play off place playing the 2 losers. That way its more localised, particularly in the Highland 'area' and if there was ever a disparity in teams the Falkirk/Stirling/West Lothian/South Fife teams could easily move about leagues to solve this. But nothing will ever change. The SPFL clubs are never going to vote for increased relegation and neither are the LL clubs. The extra hundred fans teams get at Colts games will be enough for them to keep voting them in and eventually when one of them wins the league I would not be surprised if for an extra 5k the rules are changed to grant them the right to promotion. I'm seriously at the point where i wouldn't mind getting relegated this season to just get out the LL, its an absolute stain on fitbaw in Scotland - I'm sure Berwick and Cowden fans will eventually begin leaning the same way. Certainly don't wish to be relegated as this would put a return to the SPFL out of reach even further on what is already a difficult task. My personal view is the Lowland League needs refreshed, attracting sponsorship etc. If all clubs etc are doom and gloom about the Lowland League then it's never going to succeed or be somewhere enjoyable. Fan's should engage with their clubs to propose ideas/feedback and maybe clubs will take forward those ideas with Lowland League official colleagues. Things never improve moaning,being speculative things improve when people are proactive and take a hands on approach and do something about it or try to influence. Send your change idea/proposal off outlining the benefits etc. You never know. I think at this level fans should have more involvement with the direction of the league as at the end of the day it's fans that keep clubs going and the league in operation especially in the lower leagues. Perhaps as well as directors leagues bodys should have fan representative for each Lowland League SPFL club etc. Would be great for communitues they serve too Come back to me in a few seasons to see if I'm still a glass half full. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 41 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said: What's the story with Open Goal Broomhill being allowed to have an advert in their name? I'm very surprised. Are we to pretend that it's not blatant advertising? Approved by the SFA board and doesn't breach the articles of association. 48 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said: People said that just before the pyramid was set up. I think I'm right when I say that the SFA / SPFL largely left it up to the clubs to come up with a "solution" to what came under League 2. Putting it bluntly, they weren't really that bothered, as long as something was set up. The SPFL didn't exist. The two feeder idea had been around for years. Originally proposed as two 10x divisions. When consulting with the leagues that couldn't get off the ground. Highland most obviously having 18 teams and nobody wanting to get left behind. This was one of the main problems there was no real thought to the pyramid beyond a Highland and Lowland feeder. The main thing that the SFL wanted was the parachute payment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 9 hours ago, Pyramid Watcher said: This won’t be popular, but here goes. The bottleneck was there before the introduction of the B teams, with the SPFL refusing to listen to any advances from the tiers below. The introduction of the B teams has given the SPFL the opportunity to “legitimise” that stance, which obviously takes the focus from them. I don’t personally think the B teams should be in, and their inclusion has widened the gulf in the pyramid, but the problems don’t wholly lie with the LL. Understand your stance, but it's time for LL to put on their big boy pants and take the lead on this. Show the big boys above how it's done, open up the pyramid below. If the existing LL teams are good enough they will either stay up or get promoted back. If or when LL has the best of the West and East in there, It will be a great product to sell to above and below. Instead of hiding behind the ridiculous club 42 shambles, engage with Tier 6 Leagues to come up with a plan going forward. Please somebody has to sort out SOSL, it has no place at Tier 6. I have seen both this and Div 4 West games, don't think I have to say which league us better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilianlex Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 10 hours ago, Pyramid Watcher said: This won’t be popular, but here goes. The bottleneck was there before the introduction of the B teams, with the SPFL refusing to listen to any advances from the tiers below. The introduction of the B teams has given the SPFL the opportunity to “legitimise” that stance, which obviously takes the focus from them. I don’t personally think the B teams should be in, and their inclusion has widened the gulf in the pyramid, but the problems don’t wholly lie with the LL. Maxwell and the SFA only care about the top 12 so they are more than happy for the LL to shout at the moon while they get on with their important work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Brazilianlex said: Maxwell and the SFA only care about the top 2 so they are more than happy for the LL to shout at the moon while they get on with their important work. FTFY 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) On 25/10/2022 at 08:37, FairWeatherFan said: Approved by the SFA board and doesn't breach the articles of association. Yip, I get the first bit but, forgive me for asking the obvious, the second bit would seem to leave the door open for advertising in a team name, does it not as that's what's happened. Edited October 28, 2022 by Hampden Diehard 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 19 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said: Yip, I get the first bit but, forgive me for asking the obvious, the second bit would seem to leave the door open for advertising in a team name, does it not as that's what's happened. When i asked about it that was the gist of the response barring the niceties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilianlex Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 26 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: When i asked about it that was the gist of the response barring the niceties. Red Bull Cowdenbeath has an appropriate ring to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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