Lowland League General Discussion

[Left Back]

10 hours ago, stanley said:

If relegation opens up a bit more, it wouldn't suprise me to see an ex-SPFL club get relegated from the Lowland League at some point over the next few years. I think one or two of them might struggle a bit long term as more sides get promoted from the EoS/WoS.

That's inevitable.  In the main the larger your fan-base the higher up the pyramid you are.   Some of the ex-SPFL clubs (and probably soon to be ex-SPFL clubs) have smaller fanbases than a lot of the clubs below them.  More fans = more money and money talks.

[Gordon EF]

Every league with B teams who cannot be promoted, cannot be relegated, and who're removed from the league table at the end of the season (whilst the points gained or lost against them by other clubs are not) is tinpot. Makes no difference whether the standard is high, low, or mediocre or whether the league is in Portugal, Scotland, or Outer Mongolia.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Gordon EF

[Number seven]

Kelty Hearts have been hugely backed by an outside investor as most people know and Bonnyrigg were very lucky to get good draws in the Scottish cup to help with squad recruitment.That unfortunately is not the case with Bo’ness United who are relying on fan support and small sponsorship deals like most other ex Junior teams. Without a shadow of doubt the Lowland league is on a different level playing wise.Any club promoted from level six will find this out.

[Ginaro]

4 hours ago, stanley said:

Leaving aside the B team debate, I think the biggest issue with the league is the lack of relegation spots meaning there's a gulf in quality between some of the sides.

Give it a few more years and replace Gretna, Dalbeattie, Cumbernauld, Edinburgh Uni etc. with Auchinleck, Pollok, Clydebank, Linlithgow etc. and you'll have a very good league. Unfortunately, with 1 (and potentially 0) relegation spots, it's going to take far longer than it should to change the quality of the league. Regardless of the quality of the league or the teams in it, 1 relegation spot from a 16-team league (minus the B teams) is always going to create problems.

Over the next few years if you 1) remove the B teams and 2) increase the number of relegation spots then there will be a very strong league.

It's also potentially 2 relegation spots.

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Number seven said:

Kelty Hearts have been hugely backed by an outside investor as most people know and Bonnyrigg were very lucky to get good draws in the Scottish cup to help with squad recruitment.That unfortunately is not the case with Bo’ness United who are relying on fan support and small sponsorship deals like most other ex Junior teams. Without a shadow of doubt the Lowland league is on a different level playing wise.Any club promoted from level six will find this out.

I don't think that statement is accurate. Bonnyrigg has a core of players who have been at the club for a few years now.  Their recruitment over the last couple of years has hardly caused a ripple with players coming in from Penicuik, Tranent, Stirling Uni and most recently a 35 year old from East Fife.

Their achievements in the Scottish Cup have matched their ability, going out in 3rd round (Alloa), 3rd (Dundee), 4th (Clyde), and 1st (Deveronvale) in the last four seasons.

[Gordon EF]

I don't think Bonnyrigg are in anyway 'outliers' in terms of a team being promoted form the LL to the SPFL. They're exactly the kind of bigger ex-junior club that everyone knew would eventually be able to rise up and compete with the lower end part-time SPFL clubs consistently.

Kelty are the only ex-LL outliers because they've basically been turbo-charged by investment.

I seriously doubt there's anyone here who didn't always think there were a group of clubs outside the SPFL who could easily replace a group of SPFL clubs. People have been saying this for years.

[Number seven]

I think you will find that if Bo’ness and Bonnyrigg attempt to sign a particular player they will choose the latter due to finance.The extra funds received for fortunate cup draws must be helping.

[Gimme]

I think you will find that if Bo’ness and Bonnyrigg attempt to sign a particular player they will choose the latter due to finance.The extra funds received for fortunate cup draws must be helping.

What fortunate cup draws?

[Number seven]

V Hibs at Tynecastle.2016 maybe,but  one big pay day gives a club a huge advantage.

[Brazilianlex]

3 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

I don't think Bonnyrigg are in anyway 'outliers' in terms of a team being promoted form the LL to the SPFL. They're exactly the kind of bigger ex-junior club that everyone knew would eventually be able to rise up and compete with the lower end part-time SPFL clubs consistently.

Kelty are the only ex-LL outliers because they've basically been turbo-charged by investment.

I seriously doubt there's anyone here who didn't always think there were a group of clubs outside the SPFL who could easily replace a group of SPFL clubs. People have been saying this for years.

It’s time for a National Conference League like England to make a Tier 5, would be good crowds and good football and a very strong case for auto promotion to SPFL. Would upset a few but SFA should be asking for applications and just go for it. 
The Clubs that don’t want to participate can stay in LL, HL etc.

[Gimme]

V Hibs at Tynecastle.2016 maybe,but  one big pay day gives a club a huge advantage.

That money was gone before the club even reached the Lowland League, not sure what advantage you think its bringing.

Since then they've had to fund installation of, and an upgrade to, floodlights, install terracing behind the goals, built a new enclosure and various other groundworks.

In terms of wages I know various players have gone elsewhere as Bonnyrigg couldn't match the wages they were being offered. I believe we tried to sign Blair Henderson but Spartans offered more money, we also apparently lost out on a player who went to Gala because they offered more cash.

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, Brazilianlex said:

It’s time for a National Conference League like England to make a Tier 5, would be good crowds and good football and a very strong case for auto promotion to SPFL. Would upset a few but SFA should be asking for applications and just go for it. 
The Clubs that don’t want to participate can stay in LL, HL etc.

Two problems.

There's an an existing agreement between the Leagues. Can't really dismiss those that don't want to participate in a National Conference if they're happy with the status quo. We've seen the problems just in the Lowland side of the pyramid trying to get changes.

It'd also mean increased travel without the obvious support financially through sponsorships. Which is why SPFL3 keeps getting floated.

[LongTimeLurker]

22 minutes ago, Brazilianlex said:

It’s time for a National Conference League like England to make a Tier 5, would be good crowds and good football and a very strong case for auto promotion to SPFL. Would upset a few but SFA should be asking for applications and just go for it. 
The Clubs that don’t want to participate can stay in LL, HL etc.

You are going to have to learn to deal with the fact that you are in the LL now and unlikely to leave (except possibly downwards once the likes of Dalbeattie and Gretna have gone) any time soon.

[Number seven]

Proved my point there.Surely without that lucky draw v Hibs in 2016,Bonnyrigg would have had to finance ground improvements through other means.This would have been to the detriment of squad strengthening.

[Gimme]

Proved my point there.Surely without that lucky draw v Hibs in 2016,Bonnyrigg would have had to finance ground improvements through other means.This would have been to the detriment of squad strengthening.

Not really, plenty clubs play in council owned facilities and don't have the same overheads, doesn't that give them an advantage.

Other clubs groundshare and don't have the same overheads, doesn't that give them an advantage.

There's really no link between playing Hibs in 2017 and now being in League 2 other than the Scottish Cup giving clubs a taste of what was possible. The fact that more than half the team that started against Hibs will be in the squad for the game tomorrow is the reason the club is now where it is.

[Left Back]

58 minutes ago, Number seven said:

Proved my point there.Surely without that lucky draw v Hibs in 2016,Bonnyrigg would have had to finance ground improvements through other means.This would have been to the detriment of squad strengthening.

They’ll need a few more lucky draws to get that shithole up to any reasonable standard.

[cowdenbeath]

2 hours ago, Brazilianlex said:

It’s time for a National Conference League like England to make a Tier 5, would be good crowds and good football and a very strong case for auto promotion to SPFL. Would upset a few but SFA should be asking for applications and just go for it. 
The Clubs that don’t want to participate can stay in LL, HL etc.

You would really need the SPFL to back it as a L3 to make it financially surely?

The English NL is a completely different set up to our non league.

Mostly full time sides and the likes of Wrexham get 10,000 crowds.

Decent sponsorship deals as well as a TV contract with BT Sports.

A different planet from what we have.

[Deanburn Dave]

Cannot understand anyone having a pop at Bonnyrigg Rose for benefitting financially from a cup tie.    Surely that's what all our clubs (or at least their treasurer) hope for ?    

[Number seven]

Not having a pop at Bonnyrigg.Please check back the thread to check source of debate.

[Burnieman]

20 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Every league with B teams who cannot be promoted, cannot be relegated, and who're removed from the league table at the end of the season (whilst the points gained or lost against them by other clubs are not) is tinpot. Makes no difference whether the standard is high, low, or mediocre or whether the league is in Portugal, Scotland, or Outer Mongolia.

Hopefully the clubs from the tinpot league continue to provide an opportunity for SPFL clubs to experience it for themselves.