Lowland League General Discussion

[Massimo]

That'll be the chippy lights back on then 

Lol that chippy is back in good hands

[Neilly]

I was at Open Goal V East Kilbride last night and it was decent fare for £9. Not decent enough that I'll ever be back but you always want goals at a neutral game so certainly got that.

I felt a draw was probably correct but East Kilbride sniffed out the win and credit to them but they aren't a great side by any stretch of the imagination.

Gary Miller plodding about midfield, Page at the back still a bombscare and just a very route one style of playing for second balls. If this is the top end of the league I don't think the bottom of our league will have much to worry about in a play off game.

Positives for EK were the left back Kyle Munro, who had a great battle with Broque Watson all evening before pinging in a 30 yard free kick to equalise, and the gangly forward Elliot who scored two goals and looked a handful and someone who could probably come back up the leagues.

Open Goal you can see they are trying to play football the correct way and I suppose that's admirable to an extent but they are soft in too many areas for this level of football. Very weak in full back areas and central midfield the two young guys either side of Gary Fraser just didn't do enough on or off the ball to impact the game.

Broque Watson will do some damage at this level with his pace but the stand out for sure is Semple. The goal he scored was indicative of his class, nice first touch, shift and bang from a tight angle. Seen him a few times on the highlights and now live he will definitely play league football next season, just not with this mob.

Good 500+ crowd there last night but I think they will be lucky to be getting half that by winter. Once the novelty wears off who is really going to be going to soulless Broadwood to chitter their balls off watching a team you have no real affiliation with and you don't know their players or even much about the level of football?

The whole podcast is geared heavily to the Old Firm and the people who support them barely go to their own team's games, nevermind going regularly to this experiment.

When the goals go in its more of a gentle applause it just feels a bit sterile and unnatural. Broadwood is just shit in general really for a match day experience with the awful Broadwood Farm the nearest boozer. You also entered through the emergency exit and paid at a table. I was almost expecting a meat raffle as well, just felt a bit tinpot and unprofessional.

If they are still around in 2-3 years time I'll be amazed. They certainly won't be going up through the leagues anytime soon that's for sure.

[Hampden Diehard]

On 24/07/2022 at 11:56, Connor7 said:

Connor Smith, was that the boy who was on loan at Queen’s Park last season? Surely he isn’t going to be playing a season in the lowland league.

I heard he done very well last season in league 1, a lot of potential.

He ended the season really strongly for us and was a regular. I can't see that LL level football (with all due respect) will help him move on. It's a big step up from LL to where Hearts are.

[Footballfirst]

40 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

He ended the season really strongly for us and was a regular. I can't see that LL level football (with all due respect) will help him move on. It's a big step up from LL to where Hearts are.

He was on the bench for the first team on Saturday, but was not brought on. Robbie Neilson though that it was better to bring on Andy Halliday after Hearts went 2-0 up just to protect their lead. Hearts lost a goal but hung on for the win.  Net result, Connor Smith got no game time, when he could have played 90 minutes against East Kilbride.

Connor is now 20 so should and needs to be playing first team football somewhere.  If it's not to be Hearts, then they should let him go.  He may get a game tonight against Cowdenbeath. 

Connor was one of a very talented age group at Hearts (2002s).  It included Aaron Hickey and Josh Doig, who have "made it" at a good level.  Connor was a better player than either of them while they were all at the Hearts Academy.  Of the others in Connor's age group, only Cammy Logan is still at Hearts (was on loan to Cove and Edinburgh City in the past). Lucas Berry, Cammy Graham and Jonny Jarron were in the SPFL but are now at Cowdenbeath, Robbie Cole at CSS, Michael Mbewe at Gretna, Jay Cantley at Stenhousemuir, Josh Grigor at Bonnyrigg and Brodie Strang at Kelty.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Footballfirst

[craigkillie]

Not getting on for the first game of the season does not mean he is automatically not going to get on ever.

[Neilly]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

He was on the bench for the first team on Saturday, but was not brought on. Robbie Neilson though that it was better to bring on Andy Halliday after Hearts went 2-0 up just to protect their lead. Hearts lost a goal but hung on for the win.  Net result, Connor Smith got no game time, when he could have played 90 minutes against East Kilbride.

Connor is now 20 so should and needs to be playing first team football somewhere.  If it's not to be Hearts, then they should let him go.  He may get a game tonight against Cowdenbeath. 

Connor was one of a very talented age group at Hearts (2002s).  It included Aaron Hickey and Josh Doig, who have "made it" at a good level.  Connor was a better player than either of them while they were all at the Hearts Academy.  Of the others in Connor's age group, only Cammy Logan is still at Hearts (was on loan to Cove and Edinburgh City in the past). Lucas Berry, Cammy Graham and Jonny Jarron were in the SPFL but are now at Cowdenbeath, Robbie Cole at CSS, Michael Mbewe at Gretna, Jay Cantley at Stenhousemuir, Josh Grigor at Bonnyrigg and Brodie Strang at Kelty.

But playing for Hearts B in the Lowland League is absolutely no use to him and his development.

He's already proven two leagues up and he's not going to improve further playing in that tinpot league which he is far too good for.

[Cowdenleith]

1 hour ago, Neilly said:

But playing for Hearts B in the Lowland League is absolutely no use to him and his development.

He's already proven two leagues up and he's not going to improve further playing in that tinpot league which he is far too good for.

Couldn’t score from open play in 90 minutes against the mighty Cowden tonight. Maybe he’s got a thing or two to learn yet. 

[Pyramid Watcher]

21 hours ago, Neilly said:

I was at Open Goal V East Kilbride last night and it was decent fare for £9. Not decent enough that I'll ever be back but you always want goals at a neutral game so certainly got that.

I felt a draw was probably correct but East Kilbride sniffed out the win and credit to them but they aren't a great side by any stretch of the imagination.

Gary Miller plodding about midfield, Page at the back still a bombscare and just a very route one style of playing for second balls. If this is the top end of the league I don't think the bottom of our league will have much to worry about in a play off game.

Positives for EK were the left back Kyle Munro, who had a great battle with Broque Watson all evening before pinging in a 30 yard free kick to equalise, and the gangly forward Elliot who scored two goals and looked a handful and someone who could probably come back up the leagues.

Open Goal you can see they are trying to play football the correct way and I suppose that's admirable to an extent but they are soft in too many areas for this level of football. Very weak in full back areas and central midfield the two young guys either side of Gary Fraser just didn't do enough on or off the ball to impact the game.

Broque Watson will do some damage at this level with his pace but the stand out for sure is Semple. The goal he scored was indicative of his class, nice first touch, shift and bang from a tight angle. Seen him a few times on the highlights and now live he will definitely play league football next season, just not with this mob.

Good 500+ crowd there last night but I think they will be lucky to be getting half that by winter. Once the novelty wears off who is really going to be going to soulless Broadwood to chitter their balls off watching a team you have no real affiliation with and you don't know their players or even much about the level of football?

The whole podcast is geared heavily to the Old Firm and the people who support them barely go to their own team's games, nevermind going regularly to this experiment.

When the goals go in its more of a gentle applause it just feels a bit sterile and unnatural. Broadwood is just shit in general really for a match day experience with the awful Broadwood Farm the nearest boozer. You also entered through the emergency exit and paid at a table. I was almost expecting a meat raffle as well, just felt a bit tinpot and unprofessional.

If they are still around in 2-3 years time I'll be amazed. They certainly won't be going up through the leagues anytime soon that's for sure.

Clyde used this entrance as well, or at least they did when I was there last season.

[Burnieman]

14 hours ago, Neilly said:

But playing for Hearts B in the Lowland League is absolutely no use to him and his development.

He's already proven two leagues up and he's not going to improve further playing in that tinpot league which he is far too good for.

The LL is many things, but it's hardly a "tin pot league"

[Pyramid Watcher]

8 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

The LL is many things, but it's hardly a "tin pot league"

The sense of superiority from Neilly is a recurring theme in his posts, which seem to infer that Div 2 is some sort of powerhouse league. In reality there is virtually no difference between the bottom 3/4 in SPFL 2 and the top 3/4 in the LL.

[Left Back]

12 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

The LL is many things, but it's hardly a "tin pot league"

It has B teams in in.  Textbook definition of tinpot right there.

[Burnieman]

1 minute ago, Left Back said:

It has B teams in in.  Textbook definition of tinpot right there.

It really isn't, as those who have been promoted from the league have shown, and the struggles of those relegated into it have also shown, it's not tin pot.  Some more L2 teams will discover that over time.

B teams is an entirely separate issue, and hopefully they'll be gone by this time next year.

[Left Back]

Just now, Burnieman said:

It really isn't, as those who have been promoted from the league have shown, and the struggles of those relegated into it have also shown, it's not tin pot.  Some more L2 teams will discover that over time.

B teams is an entirely separate issue, and hopefully they'll be gone by this time next year.

The B teams that are currently in the league are nothing to do with the league.  OK mate.

[Pyramid Watcher]

37 minutes ago, Left Back said:

The B teams that are currently in the league are nothing to do with the league.  OK mate.

He didn’t say that though did he? He said their inclusion is a separate issue, which given the length of the thread on here about them, would indicate that.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Pyramid Watcher

[Burnieman]

1 minute ago, Left Back said:

The B teams that are currently in the league are nothing to do with the league.  OK mate.

Let me make it simpler for you. 

The quality of the league - through promotions and relegation's - show that the LL is not "tin pot".

The inclusion of B teams is a different debate, as is whether Conor Smith should be playing in it or not.

No need for a GIF to illustrate my point.

[stanley]

Leaving aside the B team debate, I think the biggest issue with the league is the lack of relegation spots meaning there's a gulf in quality between some of the sides.

As burnieman has said, none of the sides coming down from the SPFL have won the league yet. Last season they were 6th and 8th. None of them have made great starts so far although it's extremely early in the season so too predict where they will finish.

The promoted sides from below tend to do well although Bo'ness have struggled until this season. I don't think they are all going to come up from the WoS/EoS and walk the league.

Give it a few more years and replace Gretna, Dalbeattie, Cumbernauld, Edinburgh Uni etc. with Auchinleck, Pollok, Clydebank, Linlithgow etc. and you'll have a very good league. Unfortunately, with 1 (and potentially 0) relegation spots, it's going to take far longer than it should to change the quality of the league. Regardless of the quality of the league or the teams in it, 1 relegation spot from a 16-team league (minus the B teams) is always going to create problems.

The bottom few sides in the Lowland League are clearly not very strong. Every single relegated side over the years (and there aren't many) have struggled in the EoS so far. I still think it's going to be a few years before a side is relegated from the Lowland League and then seriously challenges for promotion in Level 6 (except for Gretna/Dalbeattie if they're relegated to the SoS). Despite that, I think the top half are quite strong now and the league will only continue to improve over the next few years.

Over the next few years if you 1) remove the B teams and 2) increase the number of relegation spots then there will be a very strong league.

[Blue Brazil Forever]

46 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Let me make it simpler for you. 

The quality of the league - through promotions and relegation's - show that the LL is not "tin pot".

The inclusion of B teams is a different debate, as is whether Conor Smith should be playing in it or not.

No need for a GIF to illustrate my point.

Let me make it even simpler for you.

In which other Scottish League can three teams not be promoted or relegated.

In which other league can three of the teams not be eligible to participate in cups/ trophies.

The admission of two (and now three) B teams through bribery and lies was permitted by a casting vote.

The way the three B Teams were included in the LL is very much a part of the debate The nature of their admission challenges the integrity not only of the Lowland League but of the whole pyramid system.You should also see the Tranent June statement.

[cowdenbeath]

13 minutes ago, Blue Brazil Forever said:

Let me make it even simpler for you.

In which other Scottish League can three teams not be promoted or relegated.

In which other league can three of the teams not be eligible to participate in cups/ trophies.

The admission of two (and now three) B teams through bribery and lies was permitted by a casting vote.

The way the three B Teams were included in the LL is very much a part of the debate The nature of their admission challenges the integrity not only of the Lowland League but of the whole pyramid system.You should also see the Tranent June statement.

You do know that Burnieman is no fan of the B teams and long campaigned for more movement from the West, East and South.

[FairWeatherFan]

19 minutes ago, Blue Brazil Forever said:

In which other Scottish League can three teams not be promoted or relegated.

In this particular instance. The NCL, Midlands, and SoS. Since there's nothing to be relegated into and more than 3 clubs in each are unlicensed so cannot be promoted.

[Burnieman]

29 minutes ago, Blue Brazil Forever said:

Let me make it even simpler for you.

In which other Scottish League can three teams not be promoted or relegated.

In which other league can three of the teams not be eligible to participate in cups/ trophies.

The admission of two (and now three) B teams through bribery and lies was permitted by a casting vote.

The way the three B Teams were included in the LL is very much a part of the debate The nature of their admission challenges the integrity not only of the Lowland League but of the whole pyramid system.You should also see the Tranent June statement.

 

Did you actually read my post that you quoted? We can have debates on the quality of the league without dragging B teams into it every....single......time.

I'm no advocate of B teams inclusion.

The LL is not tin pot in terms of quality on the park, certainly in the top two thirds.