Wales v Ukraine

[Scary Bear]

1 minute ago, TheScarf said:

Wales play like that every game. Looking like they could run all day and never stop running. Compare that with the game on Wednesday night and you can see why Wales have been better than us for a decade. 
 

It sounds very ‘yer da’ but the Wales players look like they’re possessed whenever when they pull on that red shirt. 

It’s not like Bale has been knocking his pan in at Madrid. Same with Ramsay at Sevco.

[Scary Bear]

51 minutes ago, ZX1886 said:

1 major tournament in the last 2 decades.

Shows you how good Scotland are at football. Not very.

I would love it if we could unearth a Bale type player. Project Brave will sort us out.

[GiGi]

12 minutes ago, Fratelli said:

I follow a fair amount of Welsh football folk online, and they seem to have an overall togetherness as well as a culture/spirit around the national side (that has been building for the best part of a decade) that for various reasons, we just don't seem to have. This bleeds through to the players to the point where they all are all absolutely daft about playing for Wales and some of them openly use club football as a means to keep fit for internationals.

I don't put too much emphasis on the cliched intangibles like desire, passion and so on - and do believe we're going in the right direction - but aye there was a noticeable difference in overall attitude from Wales compared to ourselves. The atmosphere dropped pretty quickly on Wednesday and turned to frustration at times even before the goal, which didn't really happen tonight. 

This is recency bias IMO. We were flying after beating Israel and Denmark, super John McGinn etc, celebrating wildly remembering SOD chasing that wee fud Grealish 50 yards up the park just to boot him up in the air.

The Ukraine game for us was a huge departure from what we've grown used to and were expecting.

[shizzlemanizzle]

10 minutes ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

 

We’re all annoyed but there’s no need for this.

I take back the Lulu bit but I will die on a hill of Ayrshire potatoes.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

10 minutes ago, GiGi said:

This is recency bias IMO. We were flying after beating Israel and Denmark, super John McGinn etc, celebrating wildly remembering SOD chasing that wee fud Grealish 50 yards up the park just to boot him up in the air.

The Ukraine game for us was a huge departure from what we've grown used to and were expecting.

Aye, but the real barometer of recent years has been the inspid performances against the Czech Republic and Croatia, and the Ukraine performance was straight out of that mould.

Scotland had been underperforming for so long that any improvement would risk becoming over-hyped and so it is proving.  Yes, we are in a better place than we were but we are still some way and several positions short of being a genuinely competitive and consistent international side.  Such as the Welsh for example.

Edited June 5, 2022 by O'Kelly Isley III

[GiGi]

Just now, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Aye, but the real barometer of recent years has been the inspid performances against the Czech Republic and Croatia, and the Ukraine performance was straight out of that mould.

Scotland had been underperforming for so long that any improvement would risk becoming over-hyped and so it is proving.  Yes, we are in a better place than we were but we are still some way and several positions short of being a genuinely competitive and consistent international side.  Just like the Welsh in fact.

No argument there.

[Fratelli]

13 minutes ago, GiGi said:

This is recency bias IMO. We were flying after beating Israel and Denmark, super John McGinn etc, celebrating wildly remembering SOD chasing that wee fud Grealish 50 yards up the park just to boot him up in the air.

The Ukraine game for us was a huge departure from what we've grown used to and were expecting.

More on about the general atmosphere around the national team really. I'd say the mood around the Euros and then those games you mentioned were more the departure from the norm in the last 20+ years. Us being shite, and then the obvious divisions within Scottish football have prevented us being fully together/behind the national side as a country in the way that they are in Wales - this briefly subsided at the Euros where folk who were previously apathetic (at best) towards the national side seemed to get into it but that's quick in calming down again.

Had we qualified for the World Cup we may well have been on our way to building the type of environment around the side the Welsh currently have, but i think there are other factors involved too. 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Fratelli

[GiGi]

3 minutes ago, Fratelli said:

More on about the general atmosphere around the national team really. I'd say the mood around the Euros and then those games you mentioned were more the departure from the norm in the last 20+ years. Us being shite, and then the obvious divisions within Scottish football have prevented us being fully together/behind the national side as a country in the way that they are in Wales - this briefly subsided at the Euros where folk who were previously ambivalent (at best) towards the national side seemed to get into it but that's quick in calming down again.

Had we qualified for the World Cup we may well have been on our way to building the type of environment around the side the Welsh currently have, but i think there are other factors involved too.

Not being jammy b*****ds like the Welsh chiefly among them.

Edited June 5, 2022 by GiGi

[Grangemouth Bairn]

38 minutes ago, GiGi said:

You're not getting the Scotland job, Yogi.

I’m not Yogi and I don’t want the job thanks. 

[GiGi]

1 minute ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

I’m not Yogi and I don’t want the job thanks. 

51 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

To me, in that game there, vs our game during the week the thing that bothered me the most was the passion and commitment shown by the Welsh vs the complete lack of it by us. It’s so, so disappointing.

No, you are John Hughes and I claim my £5

 

[Dev]

3 hours ago, tarapoa said:

Ukraine look much better - but doubtless will squander lots of opportunities, then lose a scrappy goal to some Bristol Rovers haddie that comes off the bench.

……or failing that the customary 45 yard Bale ping.

How I wish I had put some money on that!

[Grangemouth Bairn]

1 minute ago, GiGi said:

No, you are John Hughes and I claim my £5

 

Ok, you win. Congratulations!!

[Diamonds are Forever]

54 minutes ago, Highland Capital said:

I’ve been thinking this for a while. Even when you take Bale and Ramsey out, if you look at the rest of their players, they just seem to have a bit more oomph about them. I’d say the same for likes of Iceland and Ireland previously as well (and maybe even Northern Ireland to some degree) - there’s not much overall between their squads and ours but they just seem to have that little bit extra.

 

It sometimes looks like that but I refuse to believe that reaching a WC means any more for the welsh players than it does for Scotland. I think often people wrongly attribute lack of effort, desire, fight etc, when really it stems from something else - either a lack of ability from the individual or tactical shortcomings exposing players.

Wales were much more compact than we were meaning there were less spaces for the Ukraine players to exploit and it was much easier for Wales to put the foot in, make blocks, win second balls etc. We gave them far too much space so were nowhere near them, giving the impression of us not getting 'stuck in'. Also when you take the lead it allows you to sit back and the game then becomes all about heading, tackling and blocking so again it looks like desire, when you are chasing a game you don't do as much as that.

Wales did get lucky tonight and with how the draw played out, but they are a better team than Scotland fans like to give them credit for. Obviously without Bale they'd be nowhere near as good, but it's generally going to be the case that small/medium size nations are going to be reliant on 1 or 2 players. But the rest of the side has developed into a pretty solid unit despite some very limited players, reaching 3 out the last 4 major championships (and reaching a semi-final in one) is something we can only dream of unfortunately.

[Virtual Insanity]

I didn't see the game tonight and unfortunately have no argument against Wales being a better team than Scotland over the last 5 years at least, but the stats suggest we performed better against Ukraine than Wales did. We got what we deserved, Wales didn't. 

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Fair play to Wales, some achievement for a rugby country of their size to get to a World Cup. More than a bit jealous tbh, their fans must be buzzing.
They finished above Czech Republic to get second in their qualifying group and have then beat Austria and Ukraine. They had a bit of luck but no extra time needed, never mind penalties. They’ve made it on merit.
Compared to us and our pathetic performance the other night there’s three obvious differences that stand out.
Firstly, they’re clearly a better coached side than us. They’re organised, disciplined and each player knows their job. No tactical disasters or selection mistakes for them. If Rob Page ever leaves Wales I’d love to him manage Scotland one day. He knows how to win big games.
Secondly, Ben Davies. He’s clearly a top defender and you can see why he plays week in week out for Spurs. He made an unreal amount of blocks and tackles tonight, our centre backs are a midfielder and Grant Hanley.
Thirdly, and obviously, the world class operator Gareth Bale. He’s just the ultimate big game player, he scored the two against Austria and he’s either scored or set that one up tonight, you just know he’s going to deliver when it matters. You could make a good case for him being the best British player of all time. What he’s done for club and country is simply phenomenal. Previous top British players have made legendary achievements for one or the other, not many have done it for both. He’s basically taken what was a footballing minnow to three major tournaments out of four, by himself. If only we had someone like him.
They’ve made it out the group stage of the last two Euros, and I fancy them to make it out that group in Qatar too. Another tournament sitting at home watching them in what could have been our place. While they sing that fecking take me home song, FFS 🫣

Agreed but it took Wales decades to figure out what a mess they used to be in and then to do something about it. Scotland has the talent and things are improving.

A Bale would be handy though - just someone to distract the other team and let colleagues play out the game plan - as tonight.

He's got that ability though to score from dead-ball situations and his colleagues are constantly looking for chances to create them for him i.e. when they attack they really shift and that puts opponents in situations where they just might make a mistake! That's about it.

[Bogbrush1903]

22 minutes ago, Virtual Insanity said:

I didn't see the game tonight and unfortunately have no argument against Wales being a better team than Scotland over the last 5 years at least, but the stats suggest we performed better against Ukraine than Wales did. We got what we deserved, Wales didn't. 

The most important stat confirms Wales won and are going to the World Cup and we lost and aren't.

If you want to make yourself feel better and think that the Welsh are jammy then fill your boots but we'll still be outsiders looking in again when the footballing world reconvenes in November.

For the first hour against Ukraine we were absolutely awful and felt like the opposition would score everytime they broke up the pitch.

I didn't watch the Welsh match but I find it hard to believe that they played worse than we did and managed to win 1-0.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Bogbrush1903

[craigkillie]

14 hours ago, Fratelli said:

I follow a fair amount of Welsh football folk online, and they seem to have an overall togetherness as well as a culture/spirit around the national side (that has been building for the best part of a decade) that for various reasons, we just don't seem to have. This bleeds through to the players to the point where they all are all absolutely daft about playing for Wales and some of them openly use club football as a means to keep fit for internationals.

I think our players very clearly love playing for Scotland right now, and there has been a massive shift in the atmosphere within the camp over the last 2 years or so. You had someone like Dykes wanting to fly out to Moldova with the squad even though he was suspended and subsequently injured, and there are several players playing a level above their club form when they turn up for Scotland.

The nation is clearly behind the team too, aside from a handful of sadsack unionists and hardcore Irish republicans, and it really is just a handful. You saw that in the summer and again during this campaign, people care deeply about this team and will sell Hampden out for them. Losing a few games to teams slightly better than us doesn't change that.

Edited June 6, 2022 by craigkillie

[TheScarf]

Wales were miles better today than we were on Wednesday. You need a lobotomy if you think otherwise.

[eez-eh]

Wales got lucky with the first goal but they absolutely did not play worse than we did. They were far more organised in comparison to us being all over the place for the first 50 minutes.

A case in point why you can’t just look at stats with no context. About half of Ukraine’s shots were probably Yarmolenko firing the ball 20 yards above the goal.

[TheScarf]

1 minute ago, eez-eh said:

Wales got lucky with the first goal but they absolutely did not play worse than we did. They were far more organised in comparison to us being all over the place for the first 50 minutes.

A case in point why you can’t just look at stats with no context. About half of Ukraine’s shots were probably Yarmolenko firing the ball 20 yards above the goal.

Some Falkirk fans claim they were the better team in the 2015 cup final due to the fact that they were shooting on sight and had about 3 times the shots The Caley had. We were totally comfortable apart from a 5 minute spell where we went down to 10 men and they equalised.

Shots on goal is such a pointless stat. You can lose 5-0 but have more shots on goal than the other team.