A reality check: Our standing in Europe

[craigkillie]

Denmark are a more successful nation than Scotland at international football. That is the only point I am making. You can paint that any way you wish.

That wasn't the point you were making when you said "whit?" to a very obviously true statement.

[Chewing Taffies]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

That wasn't the point you were making when you said "whit?" to a very obviously true statement.

My whit was in response to the pointless argument that was being made. This thread is about our standing in Europe. In no shape or form are we in better standing than Denmark. In 150 years of football they have been far more successful despite not even competing professionally until the 80s.

[John Lambies Doos]

Way below wales

[Need2Speak2Caesar]

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Way below wales

Wales or Bales seem to be able to grind out results on a regular basis.They are better than us for this fact alone.

They were 2nd best to Ukraine tonight but did the job.

We bottled it big time.

[John Lambies Doos]

Wales or Bales seem to be able to grind out results on a regular basis.They are better than us for this fact alone.
They were 2nd best to Ukraine tonight but did the job.
We bottled it big time.

Eh, they have qualified for last 3 euros and now WC. Last euros they got out their group and the one before they made semi final!. They are in nations group A. They are much better than us

[Need2Speak2Caesar]

20 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

4 hours ago, Need2Speak2Caesar said:

Wales or Bales seem to be able to grind out results on a regular basis.They are better than us for this fact alone.
They were 2nd best to Ukraine tonight but did the job.
We bottled it big time.

Eh, they have qualified for last 3 euros and now WC. Last euros they got out their group and the one before they made semi final!. They are in nations group A. They are much better than us

I am pleased you agree with me.

[Satoshi]

7 hours ago, Chewing Taffies said:

Denmark are a more successful nation than Scotland at international football. That is the only point I am making. You can paint that any way you wish.

Depends how you define success I guess, most of history we have been much better than them. But if you want to believe they are more successful then fine, doesn't bother me.

There's a reason why Scotland fans are known for their negativity

6 hours ago, Chewing Taffies said:

My whit was in response to the pointless argument that was being made. This thread is about our standing in Europe. In no shape or form are we in better standing than Denmark. In 150 years of football they have been far more successful despite not even competing professionally until the 80s.

It's only pointless because you don't like it. And I don't think anyone claimed we are currently better than Denmark (despite beating them convincingly in our last game).

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

5 hours ago, Need2Speak2Caesar said:

Wales or Bales seem to be able to grind out results on a regular basis.They are better than us for this fact alone.
They were 2nd best to Ukraine tonight but did the job.
We bottled it big time.

Eh, they have qualified for last 3 euros and now WC. Last euros they got out their group and the one before they made semi final!. They are in nations group A. They are much better than us

Wales' qualification record isn't even close to ours, nor is their head to head record. Covered in more detail the other thread, but on current trends they will match our wc qualification in 266 years (assuming we don't qualify in that period) and would need to beat us 38 consecutive times to match our head to head record.

I also don't think their current squad is better than ours, but if you do then fair enough. They are no doubt punching above their weight at the moment - good for them, Scotland has been punching above our weight most of our history - nice to see someone else get a small taste!

[SuperSaints1877]

5 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Depends how you define success I guess, most of history we have been much better than them. But if you want to believe they are more successful then fine, doesn't bother me.

There's a reason why Scotland fans are known for their negativity

It's only pointless because you don't like it. And I don't think anyone claimed we are currently better than Denmark (despite beating them convincingly in our last game).

Wales' qualification record isn't even close to ours, nor is their head to head record. Covered in more detail the other thread, but on current trends they will match our wc qualification in 266 years (assuming we don't qualify in that period) and would need to beat us 38 consecutive times to match our head to head record.

I also don't think their current squad is better than ours, but if you do then fair enough. They are no doubt punching above their weight at the moment - good for them, Scotland has been punching above our weight most of our history - nice to see someone else get a small taste!

Regarding Denmark. Unless I’m mistaken they won a major tournament (Euros) and have managed to go further at a WC than Scotland.

I’d say they are far more successful than Scotland.

Scotland qualified for two WC at the expense of Wales due to two very dodgy penalties. 

[Chewing Taffies]

5 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Regarding Denmark. Unless I’m mistaken they won a major tournament (Euros) and have managed to go further at a WC than Scotland.

I’d say they are far more successful than Scotland.

Scotland qualified for two WC at the expense of Wales due to two very dodgy penalties. 

I think it's probably better to just ignore him. He knows himself he is talking utter pish.

[Satoshi]

2 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Regarding Denmark. Unless I’m mistaken they won a major tournament (Euros) and have managed to go further at a WC than Scotland.

I’d say they are far more successful than Scotland.

Scotland qualified for two WC at the expense of Wales due to two very dodgy penalties. 

A Euros they didn't even qualify for, and only got in due to a war (Scotland did qualify).

But they did well and fair play to them, if you think they are far more successful thats your prerogative. Their head to head is worse, they have qualified for 6 world cups versus Scotland's 9. And I appreciate this is an international discussion, but their domestic league doesn't even hold a candle to us. And we had a convincing win against them in our recent fixture.

Lovely country tho, always nice to see them do well.

[Satoshi]

Just now, Chewing Taffies said:

I think it's probably better to just ignore him. He knows himself he is talking utter pish.

If you know of any inaccuracies please point them out.

The Scottish default is to talk our game down at every opportunity, the facts don't support that position and I'm more happy to educate people with some footballing history.

 

 

 

[SuperSaints1877]

22 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

If you know of any inaccuracies please point them out.

The Scottish default is to talk our game down at every opportunity, the facts don't support that position and I'm more happy to educate people with some footballing history.

 

 

 

Inaccuracies?

Have Denmark managed to win a major trophy and gone further in World cups than Scotland? 

Have Wales gone further in World cups and the Euros than Scotland?

Simple Yes or No to both questions.

Success to me is not about how many times you qualify but how far you progress.

Out of interest how many major tournaments have you seen Scotland qualify for? I’ve seen every one since 1974 and we were gash at all of them. 

Wales and Denmark have had greater success than Scotland in major tournaments. That’s a fact.

[Satoshi]

8 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Inaccuracies?

Have Denmark managed to win a major trophy and gone further in World cups than Scotland? 

Have Wales gone further in World cups and the Euros than Scotland?

Simple Yes or No to both questions.

Success to me is not about how many times you qualify but how far you progress.

Out of interest how many major tournaments have you seen Scotland qualify for? I’ve seen every one since 1974 and we were gash at all of them. 

Wales and Denmark have had greater success than Scotland in major tournaments. That’s a fact.

I'm not trying to convince you, you have made it clear how terribly awful you think the Scottish national football team is. Fine, you fulfill the long held stereotype of the self hating scot - congrats.

Scotland have reached the last 16 of the world cup 5 times (more than double Wales' number of qualifications) and the last 8 of the Euros.

In cup competitions you can have a run of success (hence why lower league teams do it / hence why Greece and Denmark did it) qualification over many decades(and h2h over a long time period) is so obviously a more appropriate measure of a countries footballing success. By your metric Greece and Denmark are better than England over the last 50 years - given the overlap of self hating Scots and their feelings towards England don't imagine you agree with that statement!

So yeah you can't seem to find any inaccuracies in what post.

Continue hating and talking down the national team though, someone needs to keep up the stereotype! The facts will win out in the end

[FalkirkBairn2021]

'Scotland have reached the last 16 of the world cup 5 times (more than double Wales' number of qualifications) and the last 8 of the Euros.'

lol

[Satoshi]

8 minutes ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said:

'Scotland have reached the last 16 of the world cup 5 times (more than double Wales' number of qualifications) and the last 8 of the Euros.'

lol

It's not well known but 100% true - hence why it's so important to share.

You can show off your improved knowledge of footballing history to your stereotypical Scottish self hater friends and family!

Edited June 6, 2022 by Satoshi

[Jacksgranda]

24 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

 

Scotland have reached the last 16 of the world cup 5 times (more than double Wales' number of qualifications) and the last 8 of the Euros.

 

 

15 minutes ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said:

'Scotland have reached the last 16 of the world cup 5 times (more than double Wales' number of qualifications) and the last 8 of the Euros.'

lol

There were only 16 teams at the 1954. 1958, 1974 & 1978 finals. There were 24 teams at the 1982, 1986 & 1990 finals. So we only reached the last 24 in those. There were 32 teams at the 1998 finals. Guess how far we got.

So while it is true to state we have reached the last 16 on 4 occasions, it's a bit disingenuous imo.

[Satoshi]

7 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

 

There were only 16 teams at the 1954. 1958, 1974 & 1978 finals. There were 24 teams at the 1982, 1986 & 1990 finals. So we only reached the last 24 in those. There were 32 teams at the 1998 finals. Guess how far we got.

So while it is true to state we have reached the last 16 on 4 occasions, it's a bit disingenuous imo.

We qualified in 1950 but chose not to go (which can be counted either way). Even if not though it's still 4 times in the last 16. Nothing disingenuous about it, the line that we have never qualified for the second round is trotted out all the time without this context, it's a formatting thing only. When the world cup was 16 we qualified 5 times and went 4, that is certainly equivalent to being in the last 16.

[TheScarf]

Or here's the sane way of looking at it.  Scotland have never made it past the group stage of a tournament.  Wales have in all the tournaments they've ever qualified for.  And they'll finish 2nd behind England in the group in Qatar.

[SuperSaints1877]

1 hour ago, Satoshi said:

I'm not trying to convince you, you have made it clear how terribly awful you think the Scottish national football team is. Fine, you fulfill the long held stereotype of the self hating scot - congrats.

Scotland have reached the last 16 of the world cup 5 times (more than double Wales' number of qualifications) and the last 8 of the Euros.

In cup competitions you can have a run of success (hence why lower league teams do it / hence why Greece and Denmark did it) qualification over many decades(and h2h over a long time period) is so obviously a more appropriate measure of a countries footballing success. By your metric Greece and Denmark are better than England over the last 50 years - given the overlap of self hating Scots and their feelings towards England don't imagine you agree with that statement!

So yeah you can't seem to find any inaccuracies in what post.

Continue hating and talking down the national team though, someone needs to keep up the stereotype! The facts will win out in the end

So you are incapable of answering simple questions. 

You sir are a fcuking idiot. 

Stick to crypto.

BTW Greece and Denmark have been more successful than England in the last 50 years. 
 

Edited June 6, 2022 by SuperSaints1877

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

This is sailing remarkably close to the incessant Messi v Ronaldo debates that carry through every football forum.

Quite frankly, who cares?  Denmark and Wales have both performed better than us, and achieved more in the last 10 years or so, and quite honestly, that's all that ever matters.  Their history is as irrelevant as ours.

Our position in Europe is that we are very much a 3rd seed/2nd tier team.  Whilst that doesn't feel great, it's still an improvement on performing like a 4th seed/3rd tier team that we have for much of the 2000s, and 2010s.

We are at least competitive against countries like Austria and by extension, our results/league standings are better than the likes of Slovenia, Slovakia, or the other 'also rans' in UNL Group B.  We should be going into the next Euro qualifiers as a minimum of a 3rd seed, with a decent expectation of pushing for automatic promotion in 2nd place. 

If we can win this UNL group, which isn't some sort of Craig Levein "we-can-still-win-every-remaining-game" nonsense, that would make us both a 2nd seed, and effectively guarantee a playoff for both ECQ and WCQ.

However you measure it, that's manifestly an improvement on the last 20 years.  Whilst it's still a push, neither is it some sort of pipe dream.  We have a good and competitive squad, and we generally play like it.