Donathan Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Estragon said: Nobody that I recognise, although as I get older that's saying less and less. They've got a boy on 48 caps that plays for Slovan Bratislava, a lot of players at the same club side (Alashkert) that can be a concern at this level. I'm looking forward to it as well. Wednesdays disappointment remains, but this has been a great competition for us over the years - hopefully this is another success. A win here, before a wee hard fought draw between Armenia and Ireland next weekend would be great I'm sure the Armenia v Ireland game is actually this weekend, the curtain raiser to the whole group. We should be playing Ukraine at home tomorrow but that game was postponed so that one of us (Ultimate Ukraine, unfortunately) could be in Cardiff on Sunday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 34 minutes ago, Estragon said: 7 points would not be avoiding disaster - if we get that start we'll win the group IMO. 5 points would be bearable, 3 or below is disaster material. Just so we know where we are starting from, I think it might be wise to base our expectations on our international form. Apart from Armenia who are about 50 places below us in the rankings, we once again have Ukraine and also the Republic of Ireland in our group, both of whom are above us. Now it could be that we have a master plan to make us win a game or 2 games against Ukraine by the end of September, but to be talking about winning the group, even for an optimist like me, is a bit much. We will have to punch well above our weight to finish second. Fun's fun but let's keep the heid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeefc1783 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Ireland aren't above us we are 8 places ahead of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Estragon said: 7 points would not be avoiding disaster - if we get that start we'll win the group IMO. 5 points would be bearable, 3 or below is disaster material. 5 points would guarantee non qualification 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 24 minutes ago, dundeefc1783 said: Ireland aren't above us we are 8 places ahead of them. Well that's weird. I looked this morning and the first site that came up said they were at 30. More bloody Russian or North Korean disinformation of some kind, intended to undermine confidence I expect! Of course that's now worse. More of a riddie if we don't do well... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 54 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: Just so we know where we are starting from, I think it might be wise to base our expectations on our international form. Apart from Armenia who are about 50 places below us in the rankings, we once again have Ukraine and also the Republic of Ireland in our group, both of whom are above us. Now it could be that we have a master plan to make us win a game or 2 games against Ukraine by the end of September, but to be talking about winning the group, even for an optimist like me, is a bit much. We will have to punch well above our weight to finish second. Fun's fun but let's keep the heid. We’ll have to punch well above our weight to finish above the worst Ireland side about 20-odd years? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 15 minutes ago, eez-eh said: We’ll have to punch well above our weight to finish above the worst Ireland side about 20-odd years? As has been pointed out, and acknowledged, my earlier statement was incorrect! That being the case, failure to get at least second would be a real failure. I'm not saying it's impossible for Scotland to finish top but there's been little recent evidence to suggest that we can take 4 points off Ukraine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estragon Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Binos said: 5 points would guarantee non qualification 3/4 group winners in LB last time had six points after three games. We'd still be well in it with 5. Edited June 3, 2022 by Estragon -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: As has been pointed out, and acknowledged, my earlier statement was incorrect! That being the case, failure to get at least second would be a real failure. I'm not saying it's impossible for Scotland to finish top but there's been little recent evidence to suggest that we can take 4 points off Ukraine. It would have been the case regardless of where Ireland were in the FIFA rankings - they’re a load of shite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: As has been pointed out, and acknowledged, my earlier statement was incorrect! That being the case, failure to get at least second would be a real failure. I'm not saying it's impossible for Scotland to finish top but there's been little recent evidence to suggest that we can take 4 points off Ukraine. Why do you place so much faith in the FIFA rankings that in the space of an hour you've went from saying we need to punch well above our weight to finish second to now it would be a real failure if we don't? Has the Ireland squad got worse in that time? Edited June 3, 2022 by Pie Of The Month 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 9 minutes ago, Pie Of The Month said: Why do you place so much faith in the FIFA rankings that in the space of an hour you've went from saying we need to punch well above our weight to finish second to now it would be a real failure if we don't? Has the Ireland squad got worse in that time? As I have said, my statement about the RoI ranking was incorrect, therefore it follows that my earlier conclusion was also incorrect. However as we are the second highest ranked, to fail to finish at least second would be a demonstrable failure. Now it might be that further disasters will befall Ukraine, but just as RoI's squad and prospects won't have changed much over this morning, our performance against Ukraine this week leads me to believe that we are unlikely to finish top. To do that I think we'd need to take 4 points off them, which at the moment seems unrealistic. I'll be delighted to be proved wrong but I was one of the ones who was optimistic about this week's game. I even had to watch it sober. I admit that I'll be increasingly optimistic as each game approaches, but I'm in my 60s and I've seen that movie too often for my liking. Our last match is away to Ukraine, scheduled for 27 September but I've no idea where it will be played. We don't want to go into that match needing a win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 5 points would guarantee non qualification Have folk not learned anything from the last qualifying group? We took 5 points from our first 3 games in that campaign and for some inconceivable reason people were saying that was us out despite us literally being in 2nd place and ahead of our direct rivals.Ukraine will not be running away with this group, I expect them to drop points in at least one, if not two of their upcoming games, and all we need to do is ensure we have at least 5 points but preferably 7 to ensure we're still in it come September. Bear in mind that our "away" game against them will be at a neutral venue too. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 I think you need to check your numbers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 I think you need to check your numbers.Just got them the wrong way round, sorted now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 I think the golf analogy would be that finishing 2nd would be par for the course. To win the group we'll need a birdie, but finishing below Ireland and/or Armenia would be a bogey. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 45 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Have folk not learned anything from the last qualifying group? We took 5 points from our first 3 games in that campaign and for some inconceivable reason people were saying that was us out despite us literally being in 2nd place and ahead of our direct rivals. They're probably still getting over the previous World Cup qualifying group, where we dropped home points early and didn't qualify, despite a very good second round of results. Being ahead of anyone in an unfinished group due to a home win against the Faeroes doesn't mean anything. In our last group, we were up against it after our first two performances. Assuming that our main competitors will also f**k things up is something that hasn't worked out in the past. As it turned out, Austria or Israel could've taken full points against each other and it wouldn't have made any difference for them, so the team and Clarke deserve a lot of credit for pulling that off. Hopefully they can pick things up again in the Nations League. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 If we take 5 points from these 3 matches this time we won't be hoping our main competitors f**k it up though, since we'd be playing those main competitors twice in September. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, craigkillie said: If we take 5 points from these 3 matches this time we won't be hoping our main competitors f**k it up though, since we'd be playing those main competitors twice in September. How many points do you think Ukraine are getting out of a possible 12 in their matches against Ireland and Armenia? If they get the maximum 12/12 and we only get 8, we’ll need to beat Ukraine home and away to win the group. That’s the situation we face if we only get 5 points from this triple header. If we get 7 points from this triple header then another 7 in September is likely enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Ukraine are not going to win all their games. Apart from anything, they're not going to be as up for it as they were for the qualifiers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lubo_blaha Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 How many points do you think Ukraine are getting out of a possible 12 in their matches against Ireland and Armenia? If they get the maximum 12/12 and we only get 8, we’ll need to beat Ukraine home and away to win the group. That’s the situation we face if we only get 5 points from this triple header. If we get 7 points from this triple header then another 7 in September is likely enough. I think there’s every chance Ukraine slip up in Dublin on Wednesday, given the magnitude of the two games they will have played beforehand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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