Skyline Drifter Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, The Master said: From a technical perspective, if there were an automated system to check player suspensions, it should in theory be possible to extend it to other types of eligibility. One way would be for every fixture to be assigned its competition (Scottish Cup, SPFL League, SPFL League Cup, Lowland League...etc.), with each competition having associated player eligibility rules. The system would then either proactively highlight ineligible players for a club's next fixture, or do so reactively in response to a query (either an individual player, or submitting the proposed team line). The question, as ever, is whether it's worth it. Given that issues around player eligibility seem to be relatively rare (in the professional leagues anyway), it's probably not worth the expense. Although, with my work hat on, it does feel like the sort of thing a Computer Science student could produce - at least in prototype/proof-of-concept form - as a final year project. Yeah, it's not my bag at all so over my head. I'm just not sure it's reasonable to expect the SFA to read, inwardly digest, and develop a system like that which would, if it's to be comprehensive, need to encompass every level of local cup competition. Like I said initially I think there's a tendency for people like us to assume that SFA = SPFL, Lowland and Highland league and a half dozen cup competitions. I don't think fans really appreciate the scale of operations they are dealing with. It goes right down the pyramid and indeed outside the pyramid with youth levels etc of course. For instance in January I know for a fact that they might be dealing with a thousand registrations a week or more potentially. Anyone who uploads documentation to a couple of days apart only needs to look at the transaction reference number to know that. (just checked and the number of transactions uploaded to the SFA between 5:30pm last night and 1pm today was 161. That's half a day in working terms, and after the transfer window closed). I appreciate it will be technically possible, but I'm just not sure it's practical. I guess the argument would be to make it comprehensive only in the professional game maybe? Edited February 3, 2023 by Skyline Drifter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) SFA's system already generates teamlists if desired i.e. registered players only. They already issue suspension lists weekly i.e. bans. Being cup-tied admittedly not tabulated. Time bar really just "forgetfulness" - if the game is postponed, then you sign somebody, you don't play them - but regardless would be covered by club retaining teamlists they generated before original attempt. It wouldn't eliminate the issue anyway. Different competitions have different rules on trialists, like caps on how many or on how often... age-limits/caps on over-agers... signing cutoffs (Mar 31st/Apr 1st)... etc. etc. Edited February 3, 2023 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said: SFA's system already generates teamlists if desired i.e. registered players only. They already issue suspension lists weekly i.e. bans. Being cup-tied admittedly not tabulated. Time bar really just "forgetfulness" - if the game is postponed, then you sign somebody, you don't play them - but regardless would be covered by club retaining teamlists they generated before original attempt. It wouldn't eliminate the issue anyway. Different competitions have different rules on trialists, like caps on how many or on how often... age-limits/caps on over-agers... signing cutoffs (Mar 31st/Apr 1st)... etc. etc. The Suspension Lists are manually produced though and occasionally have errors (see Ambrose, Efe, but it's not unique). They also tend not to take midweek games into account as they are produced before teamlines have necessarily even been uploaded by referees. So new suspensions can be missing and served ones can still be on there. Lists of registered players, as you note yourself, is not the same as eligible players. It will include those signed after a cut off date for the Scottish Cup (Henderson would have been on Queen's Park's list). It will include those cup tied and it will include those suspended. it will even include, albeit with additional narrative, those on loan elsewhere. I agree though. I'm not into IT and system development but it seems to me there would be an awful lot more to this than people saying it should be automatic actually realise. I do accept there may be an argument for doing so in professional senior age group terms though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletar Spider Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 If we're going to get kicked out of the Cup, could they not get on with it? There's no way this should be allowed to drag on into next week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Skeletar Spider said: If we're going to get kicked out of the Cup, could they not get on with it? There's no way this should be allowed to drag on into next week. The hearing is today, usually it's late on though. https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/disciplinary/disciplinary-updates/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachnophile Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Just now, Skeletar Spider said: If we're going to get kicked out of the Cup, could they not get on with it? There's no way this should be allowed to drag on into next week. maybe the judicial panel has an ineligible member 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletar Spider Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Rugster said: The hearing is today, usually it's late on though. https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/disciplinary/disciplinary-updates/ Cheers. For some reason I assumed it would take place in the morning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said: The Suspension Lists are manually produced though and occasionally have errors (see Ambrose, Efe, but it's not unique). They also tend not to take midweek games into account as they are produced before teamlines have necessarily even been uploaded by referees. So new suspensions can be missing and served ones can still be on there. Lists of registered players, as you note yourself, is not the same as eligible players. It will include those signed after a cut off date for the Scottish Cup (Henderson would have been on Queen's Park's list). It will include those cup tied and it will include those suspended. it will even include, albeit with additional narrative, those on loan elsewhere. I agree though. I'm not into IT and system development but it seems to me there would be an awful lot more to this than people saying it should be automatic actually realise. I do accept there may be an argument for doing so in professional senior age group terms though. As you say, the inherent issue with any automated system is GIGO, garbage in-garbage out. As you note, the basic system, for a single league, would be easy…make it for all professional leagues, and it’s suddenly quite complex…make it for all SFA regulated leagues, it’s a nightmare. Lets design this system on paper: 1) This system must track all registered players at least by name, birthdate, place of birth, current and prior clubs and (likely) other characteristics (likely already in place, but would probably have to be transitioned to a new system)…plus comply with GDPR and avoid fines…which is always fun because, how long do you keep a free agent in the system? 2) This system must input all player transactions in less than 2 days (games occur 3-7+ days apart). 3) The system must input all disciplinary or eligibility actions in less than 2 days (knock on effect is requiring officials to enter disciplinary data into a system within a day). 4) The system must be programmed to evaluate the input data and sort based upon league(s) in which action occurs, the individual rules applied to that league(s), the effects of transition between leagues and registration regimes, etc. 5) The system must be easily accessible by officials and clubs…while being absolutely secure from hacking or intrusion…and must be able to return results for an enquiry within a minute or less. …While all this happens, if Madge (entering data for the SFA) checks the wrong box for the card that Steven issued to Jock (checks not violent conduct instead of violent conduct, perhaps), then the system tells Clarance that Jock is eligible to play against United, but Peter notices Jock playing and thinks, wait, he’s not eligible… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 17 minutes ago, Rugster said: The hearing is today, usually it's late on though. https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/disciplinary/disciplinary-updates/ 16 minutes ago, Skeletar Spider said: Cheers. For some reason I assumed it would take place in the morning. In my experience they are almost always morning, it just takes them most of the day to publish the results and clubs are embargoed until then. QP and ICT will already know the outcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h_w7864 Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QPSpider1867 Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) That's it confirmed then, we're out. Absolutely gutted for the players and travelling support in particular. Edited February 3, 2023 by QPSpider1867 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Soo-sider Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 OK Queen's - how about an explanation. What do you say to the management, players and fans that put everything into that game? How many off-field disasters can we sustain. Mistakes happen but the cost of this could be substantial. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Rico Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 That statement is unacceptable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky1990 Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Here lads, thought you left your amateur days behind you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruthenight Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Fucked it lads. What's the story here, do you just have an incompetant admin team? Just a one off? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 They really don’t get it, eh? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Rico Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) No apology, no explanation, no consequences, no accountability, no commitment to doing things differently Edited February 3, 2023 by Spider Rico 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeTownSpider Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Spider Rico said: No apology, no explanation, no consequences, no accountability, no commitment to doing things differently No one offering their resignation, or being dismissed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spiderman Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 The worst of this is the feeling that normal fans can’t do shit bringing change. Our committee are yes men and unaccountable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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