Can we ever imagine a Scotland without the Old Firm?

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

So what? There was nothing in place to keep them there,the bubble burst.
You want clubs to do the same thing?

Yes, Willie.  I very clearly want as many clubs as possible to embark on bonkers spending then go bust.

That's obviously exactly what I'm saying when I mention wanting the OF to leave.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

10 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, Willie.  I very clearly want as many clubs as possible to embark on bonkers spending then go bust.

That's obviously exactly what I'm saying when I mention wanting the OF to leave.

Please stop responding to him. It's a bit embarrassing for us all.

[Monkey Tennis]

7 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Please stop responding to him. It's a bit embarrassing for us all.

I know.  I know I should just leave it, but I struggle to ignore such absolute rubbish.

 

If I thought he was on a wind up, I could respect that.  However, I fear he really means it.

[Richie]

You’re being a wee bit ridiculous. Apart from anything else, I, and I’m sure lots of other fans, want rid of Celtic and Rangers because of their fans, their “history”, their “traditions”, their bigotry, their sectarianism. 

If the OF were to leave, the media would still be fawning all over them and we'd still get the wall to wall shite and circus around them.
That would disappear only from the perspective of fixtures/fans being in Scottish grounds.
Instead of Sportsound faux reporting from Ibrox in a studio, they'd be reporting from Vicarage Road.

[kingjoey]

8 minutes ago, Richie said:

If the OF were to leave, the media would still be fawning all over them and we'd still get the wall to wall shite and circus around them.
That would disappear only from the perspective of fixtures/fans being in Scottish grounds.
Instead of Sportsound faux reporting from Ibrox in a studio, they'd be reporting from Vicarage Road.
 

They wouldn’t be visiting my club’s ground. That’ll do for a start. Who’ll be the first smartarse to say that they may not be visiting my club’s ground next season?

[ol1vercloff]

14 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Such servile bloody rubbish.

Livingston's chances of winning trophies would be vastly enhanced if they had a little less cash in absolute terms, but no huge clubs in the way.

To not recognise that is utterly perverse.

I like the idea of the world you're dreaming of, but unfortunately money makes the world go round.  It's just a fact.  If non old firm chairman thought the grass would be greener without Scotland's shame, I'm sure they would have been voted out by now.  But they got their mind on the money, money on their mind etc.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, ol1vercloff said:

I like the idea of the world you're dreaming of, but unfortunately money makes the world go round.  It's just a fact.  If non old firm chairman thought the grass would be greener without Scotland's shame, I'm sure they would have been voted out by now.  But they got their mind on the money, money on their mind etc.

Yes, but what's the money for?

It only has relevance in relative terms.

[Monkey Tennis]

43 minutes ago, Richie said:

If the OF were to leave, the media would still be fawning all over them and we'd still get the wall to wall shite and circus around them.
That would disappear only from the perspective of fixtures/fans being in Scottish grounds.
Instead of Sportsound faux reporting from Ibrox in a studio, they'd be reporting from Vicarage Road.
 

Absolutely fine.  I'll still take it.

I don't need tabloid coverage of the rest of the Scottish game.  There's not much of it anyway, so what's the difference?

 

 

The only real difference would be a more even playing field, thus allowing success to be better shared.  If media coverage of that is lacking, I couldn't care less.  

[ol1vercloff]

12 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, but what's the money for?

It only has relevance in relative terms.

For Scottish clubs it has to be for investing in players, coaches, facilities etc to help in the push to progress to win leagues, trophies and go further in Europe.

I take your point that Livingston's chances of winning something would increase slightly if the old firm went away, but I'm not naive enough to think that we could plod along as we are and statistically, we'll probably win a cup in the next few years.  We're still miles off it compared to top 6 clubs, and money will help us catch up.

[Dunfermline Don]

You just needs to look at the interest in the game at Rugby Park tonight to see that supporters will come out if the game means something.
At the moment only two clubs start the season believing they can win the league, the other ‘big clubs’ consider finishing 3rd as a successful season.
The mainstream media would probably still fawn over the OF if they left but do many non OF fans actually pay much attention to them these days anyway.

[Dundee Hibernian]

I probably hinted at this quite a few pages back, but the enablers in the Lowland League, supported by the Scottish football authorities, have set the groundworks for any OF departure. 

50% departed anyway in 2012, then the new entity was said to be on 'The Journey'. Perhaps this time it would be billed as a 'Second Coming' as the Ibrox colts took their rightful place at the top table, with the Parkhead mob labelling their assent as Parousia.

I suppose if it took over 2000 years to occur, we could live with that.

[Forever_blueco]

8 hours ago, EpicMike said:

Over a 30 year period, those three would probably scoop the most trophies.

But it wouldn't be the case right now where one of the OF win the league every season and both of the cups most seasons. Since 2000 only Rangers or Celtic have won the league, but we've had 7 different teams finish as "best of the rest". Teams like Motherwell and Kilmarnock could feasibly catch Hearts and Aberdeen, we've seen it happen, they have absolutely no chance of catching the OF.

I’m not saying anyone is right or wrong and everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions on how it will pan out 

mine is that eventually over time it will be dominated by those 3 clubs . Not to the extent of us and Celtic agreed but a gap of sorts would form over time 

[wastecoatwilly]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, Willie.  I very clearly want as many clubs as possible to embark on bonkers spending then go bust.

That's obviously exactly what I'm saying when I mention wanting the OF to leave.

You are deliberately missing my point,Field of dreams build it and they will come. 

[wastecoatwilly]

2 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Please stop responding to him. It's a bit embarrassing for us all.

Falkirk fans know what's embarrassing nobody on here needs to say it.

[Scary Bear]

I wonder why you don’t get those freak years anymore where the likes of Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hearts or Hibs win the league?

Last time that happened was 1985. We surely must be due another Alex Ferguson.

[EpicMike]

4 hours ago, Forever_blueco said:

I’m not saying anyone is right or wrong and everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions on how it will pan out 

mine is that eventually over time it will be dominated by those 3 clubs . Not to the extent of us and Celtic agreed but a gap of sorts would form over time 

I agree that those three teams would be the most successful overall, I just don't think they would "dominate" which to me suggests winning the league every year and the cup most years like we see now with the OF. I imagine the gap would be quite similar to what we see now, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen usually near the top of the table but never more than a bad season away from a bottom half finish or even relegation. And always with the chance of one of the better run, smaller teams having a good season finishing above them like we've seen with Motherwell and Kilmarnock recently.

 

[Forever_blueco]

1 hour ago, EpicMike said:

I agree that those three teams would be the most successful overall, I just don't think they would "dominate" which to me suggests winning the league every year and the cup most years like we see now with the OF. I imagine the gap would be quite similar to what we see now, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen usually near the top of the table but never more than a bad season away from a bottom half finish or even relegation. And always with the chance of one of the better run, smaller teams having a good season finishing above them like we've seen with Motherwell and Kilmarnock recently.

 

That May well be the case and it’s an interesting debate . However thinking it will be like it is as now just minus Rangers and Celtic dosen’t take into account the European possibilities 

in my opinion those 3 are already ahead on resources so naturally they would begin to start consistently achieving the European positions and the riches that come with it . 

 once they begin consistently getting that European money . Even it it is only Europa or conference they would still make enough from those competitions to create a gap with the rest. Over time title challenges and European qualification would become the normal target for them each summer and they would have the money and resources to outspend the rest of the league to enable them to do so . 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Forever_blueco

[Squonk]

26 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said:

they would have the money and resources to outspend the rest of the league to enable them to do so . 

Excuse me if my memory is playing tricks, but didn't the learned chap in your avatar contend (for the price of a pension top-up) that money had no influence on results on the field of play?

[kingjoey]

27 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said:

That May well be the case and it’s an interesting debate . However thinking it will be like it is as now just minus Rangers and Celtic dosen’t take into account the European possibilities 

in my opinion those 3 are already ahead on resources so naturally they would begin to start consistently achieving the European positions and the riches that come with it . 

 once they begin consistently getting that European money . Even it it is only Europa or conference they would still make enough from those competitions to create a gap with the rest. Over time title challenges and European qualification would become the normal target for them each summer and they would have the money and resources to outspend the rest of the league to enable them to do so . 

There I see no comparison between the gap between Celtic and Rangers and the rest at the moment, and any potential gap between any of the remaining teams and the rest. Celtic and Rangers have home crowds of over 50,000, season ticket holders of over 45,000, worldwide merchandise sales, Scotland wide merchandise sales. There is no comparison in the situation with Celtic and Rangers within the Scottish football system and Celtic and Rangers leaving Scottish football. And as I’ve said previously the big win is getting rid of the bigotry and sectarianism that these two clubs bring to all of the other grounds that they visit in this country. 

[Trackdaybob]

There would be competition. Something actually worth winning. 

Winning would mean something instead of being expected and taken for granted. 

I don't really expect either side of the bigot brothers support to understand. They seem to think that winning it 1,2,3,4,5, etc, etc times in a row is some sort of achievement instead of a blatant indication that there's no competition in the first place.