Adding calories to Restaurant Menus

[SuperSaints1877]

1 hour ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

I don't like looking at fat people. 

Do you boo Morelos?

[VincentGuerin]

13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Because it fails to deal with the underlying problem of over-eating in the first place.

 

This is true with people who have a real problem.

But we shouldn't just be aiming at them. We should be thinking of the number of people who are happily slightly overweight but who could easily help themselves out with a few more well-informed choices.

If you eat out pretty regularly and actually see what the calorie count of that is, it may lead people to choose different meals when eating out or to opt for more home-cooked meals.

We all know people who are constantly mystified as to why they're not losing weight despite regular gym trips. A lot of people are simply ignorant about what they are eating, and giving people more information is no bad thing. How you use it is up to you.

[Albus Bulbasaur]

10 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Do you boo Morelos?

Just yer maw

[DMCs]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

The issue is takeaway food but the problem is that even thought McDonald's provide a full sheet of all nutrition in all of their foods already, I'd be surprised if anyone reads it.

The issue is that food is cheaper than ever so we are consuming more calories and we live in a service economy so we aren't exercising as much so aren't shedding as many calories. People have been getting fatter since the 19th century. It's nothing to do with "junk food" and the likes. It's simply an issue of more calories consumed and less expended. Which is why these various public health little tax tweaks here and there will be ineffective.

We are better off being more pro-active with early life exercise interventions.

[ICTChris]

I think there are just generally more calories avaialable now than there were in previous decades.  I'm in my office today and I got a drive through coffee on the way in (220 calories).  There's also a canteen selling pizzas, chips, massive sandwiches, chocolate, crisps etc.  There's a coffee bar selling cakes and sweets as well as high calorie coffees.  Almost every day teams order in Dominos for team meetings etc.  Every week we have companies selling food that come in and have a food truck or stand at work - burritos etc.

When I was a kid I would sometimes go into the office with my dad and they had a lady who came round in the morning and the afternoon so you could get a cup of tea or coffee and a biscuit.  I don't think there was a canteen but if there was it was just for lunches.

[ICTChris]

It is amazing, if you look at old clips of people in the 1970s and 80s, people were really lean.  I saw someone share a photo of Irish fans at Italia 90, and they all look like boxers.

I was watching a clip of the Hampden riot in 1980 and all the Old Firm fans smashing the place up and battering each other were extremely lean.  Not a mobile phone in sight, just people living in the moment.

[SuperSaints1877]

6 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

It is amazing, if you look at old clips of people in the 1970s and 80s, people were really lean.  I saw someone share a photo of Irish fans at Italia 90, and they all look like boxers.

I was watching a clip of the Hampden riot in 1980 and all the Old Firm fans smashing the place up and battering each other were extremely lean.  Not a mobile phone in sight, just people living in the moment.

That’s basically because the fast food outlets that exist today didn’t exist in the same numbers in the 70s and 80s. There was also a lot more heavy lifting work carried out by workforce. Not idle office workers like you who spend all day on internet web forums.

Kids never had internet back then or PlayStations etc so actually played outside regardless of the weather.

 

[Leith Green]

27 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yep. We do have something of a blame culture which doesn't really help. I suppose it's easier than actually solving problems though.

You know I was having a wee laugh, aye?

[TheScarf]

I don't really look at calories either.  I know what foods will be high calorie and which will be low.  I know if I get a Burger King for my tea it'll be probably double the calories of something I make myself.

I just try to eat a shit tonne of salad and pump iron 4-5 times a week and get absolutely #shredded.

[velo army]

23 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Because it fails to deal with the underlying problem of over-eating in the first place.

Diets are notoriously unsuccessful in the longer term because of this.

Short term weight loss, no problem. Keeping it off is another battle altogether.

I suppose it depends on what you want to call a success.

Do you just want to lose weight? Or do you also want it to stay off? I'm coming from a view that you need to have both things in place before you can start talking about success.

The wording of your previous post suggested that you thought focusing on calories caused weight gain, and your follow up says that it does this by failing to deal with a root cause in comfort eating. Logically you could argue that it doesn't aid weight loss (you'd be wrong, at least according to the health and fitness coaches I know, but it wouldn't be illogical), but not that counting calories actively causes weight gain just because it doesn't address what you judge to be root causes of comfort eating.

There's been a lot of strawman construction on this thread so far. Nobody is saying this is a panacea. It's a step forward and will undoubtedly help people make better informed dietary choices.

You are of course correct that it isn't just about calories, but about the type of calories, and I can see nutrition information being listed on menus too going forward. Menus are increasingly going virtual now so this would be easy to create.

Finally, and to @Detournement's point to people not eating 1000 calories too many every day. You'd probably be surprised. My pal and I started using myfitnesspal (calorie counting app) last year. Now we're both intelligent and, we thought, well informed men who just needed a bit of directed guidance. We were pretty flabbergasted by how much extra we'd been eating Vs how much we should. Things like olive oil, pizza and pasta are surprisingly high in calories (especially the oil, which I cook with often) and, in my anecdotal experience, people mostly eat a "meal" without really considering the nutritional make up of it, so it would be very easy to overeat without feeling massively full.

 

[Detournement]

15 minutes ago, velo army said:

Things like olive oil, pizza and pasta are surprisingly high in calories 

 

Really? Pizza is the most obviously bad thing you can't eat imo.

It's a massive pile of bread and cheese that is hard to digest.

[Soapy FFC]

38 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yeah that seems reasonable.

I am not convinced that, humans being humans, it will do much good but in principle I support measures like this.

I'd like to also see a different approach from calorie counting as well when it comes to education.

A massive problem, and it's been touched on above, is portion size.

As a nation, I don't think we have a good handle on what a normal portion of food should look like. I know that I was shocked when I saw how little was supposed to be on the plate.

Calorie counting is ok in the short term. For people who have been overeating for years, and I include myself in that group, the biggest change they could probably make is to reduce portion size. But to start with people need to understand and count the calories in a portion, and once they have a good handle on what a healthy portion size is they can stop the counting and just eat 'normally', as long as the portions stay reasonable. Keep your portion sizes sensible, and you can eat what you want. It's not rocket science, and seems so easy, but it's one of the most difficult things for someone to do, as I know for myself.

 

 

[Soapy FFC]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Hmmmmph!!!

First of all, I'm a great cook and usually cook fresh meat instead of highly processed food. 

And secondly, I get around the guest issue by not having guests. 

Towards the end of last year I stated to cook a lot more, mostly vegetarian but not exclusively. I felt so much better than I did when eating the normal processed and preprepared food, and over 3 months I lost a couple of stone. It does take a lot of effort to cook like that all the time, but it is worth it if you can.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

And secondly, I get around the guest issue by not having guests. 

So much this. 

18 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said:

Towards the end of last year I stated to cook a lot more, mostly vegetarian but not exclusively. I felt so much better than I did when eating the normal processed and preprepared food, and over 3 months I lost a couple of stone. It does take a lot of effort to cook like that all the time, but it is worth it if you can.

I started doing this a couple of years ago. My partner has a long term brain injury and some research she'd read about processed food and it's effects on fatigue etc made us think a bit about taking the extra time to cook proper food. Once you get your processes sorted it's really not hugely slower than chucking some findus rubbish in the oven. I just batch cook stuff like chilli and curries and freeze them for later on. 

[Dan Steele]

1 hour ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Maybe if you served the meat with a good peppercorn sauce made with cream and brandy then more of your dinner invitations would be accepted!

Top marks for trying to guilt-trip your way into an invite for dinner, but to actually suggest the menu might be seen by some as bad form.

 

 

ps - I usually add my choice of pudding.

[Soapy FFC]

7 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I find it doesn't really take much more time.

A pie can be chucked in an oven and left whereas a stir-fry needs constant attention but both require about 15-20 minutes from fridge to plate. I stick an iPad on with a film or some music whilst I'm cooking.

Like you, I just felt better for leaving the pies behind. I immediately found that I could feel full and energised without feeling bloated, shite and sleepy after eating.

I'm not a fan of vegetarian stuff though. I do like a good portion of meat of an evening. 

I agree now with the time, the thing that took the time for me at first was actually deciding what to have, then getting the stuff. At first it was also a bit more expensive as I needed to get the various spices and herbs, but once you have them in the cupboard it's a lot easier, and also cheaper than buying ready made.

Vegetarian curries are just as tasty as meat ones, but I do tend to agree about non curry and stir fry stuff. A lamb or pork chop is much better than a cauliflower steak.

[Donathan]

26 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I do like a good portion of meat of an evening. 

[scottsdad]

3 hours ago, ICTChris said:

It is amazing, if you look at old clips of people in the 1970s and 80s, people were really lean.  I saw someone share a photo of Irish fans at Italia 90, and they all look like boxers.

I was watching a clip of the Hampden riot in 1980 and all the Old Firm fans smashing the place up and battering each other were extremely lean.  Not a mobile phone in sight, just people living in the moment.

Combination of biology and economics at play here. 

We have evolved in conditions where food was scarce and as such, we don't need to eat huge amounts to sustain our body weight. Historically we never had access to food in the way we do now., Add in factors such as rationing post-war and you can see why in the not too distant past people were quite lean compared to now. 

In the past, say, 40 years or so the amount of what you might call easy food has exploded - ready meals, takeaways, pre-made coffees, pre-made sandwiches, pasta pots and so on. In theory making food easier to get and cheaper meant fewer people going hungry. It also meant more people eating more than their bodies needed to sustain their weight. 

Finally, exercise. Fifty years ago more people walked and cycled to get around. Now I see my fat neighbour climbing into get car to go to the shop which is literally at the end of the street. Forget planned exercise, general everyday movement has diminished. 

[TheScarf]

I'm going to the gym after work then getting a Burger King.

[SuperSaints1877]

Just now, scottsdad said:

Combination of biology and economics at play here. 

We have evolved in conditions where food was scarce and as such, we don't need to eat huge amounts to sustain our body weight. Historically we never had access to food in the way we do now., Add in factors such as rationing post-war and you can see why in the not too distant past people were quite lean compared to now. 

In the past, say, 40 years or so the amount of what you might call easy food has exploded - ready meals, takeaways, pre-made coffees, pre-made sandwiches, pasta pots and so on. In theory making food easier to get and cheaper meant fewer people going hungry. It also meant more people eating more than their bodies needed to sustain their weight. 

Finally, exercise. Fifty years ago more people walked and cycled to get around. Now I see my fat neighbour climbing into get car to go to the shop which is literally at the end of the street. Forget planned exercise, general everyday movement has diminished. 

There are some people who don’t even go to shops or takeaways anymore. All ordered and delivered without them leaving the house.

Many kids nowadays don’t even walk to school. 

The problem is only going to get worse.