St Johnstone vs Livingston - 2 April 2022

[FrankChickens1]

State of Marvin Bartley. 

Luckily Rooney on hand to sort him out, with the exact point tree house made earlier. 

[Cptn Hooch]

Just watched the highlights to see what I missed.

Saint penalty is soft, Fitzwater is doing what every player does when challenging for a header and Hendry runs into him, hes essentially punished for being tall which happened to Nouble previously....I'm sure Clancy was the ref then too. Shortly after Soto takes the ball into the box and gets a nice straight arm push in the back from Cleary which on any other day is a foul...we don't get it. Penrice lucky to stay on the park with his tackle. The people saying Devlin should have been off should give up watching football, clean tackle that the st Johnstone player pulls out off and therefore gets hurt. Clearly should have been off for his punch in the box, that's an absolutely shocking decision and Clancy should be answering the questions posed on that one. We didn't deserve to lose the game but we weren't as good as we could have been. If all the talk of decisions evening themselves out over the season is true then our next few games should be gimmes as we're well due a few.

[Radford]

Not sure I can remember a season where there have been quite so many bad decisions. Yet, despite all that, about the only thing more soul-crushing than trying to watch St Johnstone play football (especially at home on that cow field) at the moment would be VAR interfering in any of the rare moments of excitement. 

Our results have improved but really only because we haven't been on the receiving end of decisions like the one that went against Livingston yesterday and Callum Hendry is capable of scoring goals (including penalties, which is worth pointing out when it comes to St Johnstone) now. 

Thought we played well at Livingston after the break but other than that, it's still pretty shit. But, in saying that, I think the challenge for the manager was to get towards 36 points and see where it left us. That meant around 30 points at the split and he's achieved that. 

Do I want to watch another season of Davidson-ball though? Very debatable.

[Theyellowbox]

2 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

Just watched the highlights to see what I missed.

Saint penalty is soft, Fitzwater is doing what every player does when challenging for a header and Hendry runs into him, hes essentially punished for being tall which happened to Nouble previously....I'm sure Clancy was the ref then too. Shortly after Soto takes the ball into the box and gets a nice straight arm push in the back from Cleary which on any other day is a foul...we don't get it. Penrice lucky to stay on the park with his tackle. The people saying Devlin should have been off should give up watching football, clean tackle that the st Johnstone player pulls out off and therefore gets hurt. Clearly should have been off for his punch in the box, that's an absolutely shocking decision and Clancy should be answering the questions posed on that one. We didn't deserve to lose the game but we weren't as good as we could have been. If all the talk of decisions evening themselves out over the season is true then our next few games should be gimmes as we're well due a few.

I think no one would argue that it should have been a penalty for Livi. Shocking decisions from the ref and highlights the poor standard in Scotland. Imagine if that happened in todays Bigotfest? Likewise the obvious red for Penrice. You could argue either way the Hendry penalty. If it is for your team you can clearly argue for it. If it is against you, you'd clearly argue against it. You are bang on about Nouble, he gets fouled a lot, but because of his size, carries or, but in a way that balances out Soto. A couple of times in first half, he was about to throw himself down for slight contact and realised at last second he'd not get anything.

For Saints, Cleary is going to end up costing us points eventually. He is too rash with challenges and seems to have at least one 'heads gone' moment in each game.

A draw would have been a fair result and Livi can feel hard done by with the penalty decision. As for the refs decisions evening themselves out, they probably do which means another horrific decision to come.

Saints have been no where good enough for most of thos season, but if even just a couple of the bad decisions against us earlier in the season led to wins instead of draws or draws instead of losses, we'd be nor far off a top 6 place, which is unthinkable. Had we addressed the slide earlier, even just 2/3 games earlier how different would this season be looking? 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Theyellowbox

[NYD1997]

Did forget to give a special mention to the pitch again - somehow with 2 weeks of nice weather since the last game the gleneagles binman has still made it worse - it’s going to cost us points - I’d have to see it from a different angle but the cleary hand ball looked like he may have slipped to cause him to go down, along with multiple times Rooney running with the ball and it just bouncing without a touch when it had been on the ground

[Theyellowbox]

10 minutes ago, Radford said:

Do I want to watch another season of Davidson-ball though? Very debatable.

You could argue that IF we do manage to stay up, which actually got the makings of a pretty decent side there. Obviously, Zander, Rooney and Hendry all likely away and hard to replace, but recruit well enough (not our strength) to fill those gaps then we have a core that is better than the table suggests. 

[RandomGuy.]

23 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

You could argue that IF we do manage to stay up, which actually got the makings of a pretty decent side there. Obviously, Zander, Rooney and Hendry all likely away and hard to replace, but recruit well enough (not our strength) to fill those gaps then we have a core that is better than the table suggests. 

The current squad is better than they're allowed to show.

We're hamstrung by carrying multiple passengers based on nothing, combined with a style of play designed to strangle games.

Davidson should be gone this Summer, even if we stay up, because he's shown absolutely nothing to suggest he's actually changed. The upturn in form hasnt been anything tactical, we've simply went from having a bombscare at CB and zero goal threat to having a settled backline and Hendry getting a goal every week. To me there's more chance we end up in the exact same position come January again than us somehow turning into a top six side because hes still not showing he can adapt anything to win us games beyond shuffling the deck until something sticks. Is it hard to imagine us losing Clark, Rooney, McCart, and Hendry this Summer? Whats his plan for that if the new players dont instantly catch fire?

I'd guess that the turn around in our form since January has earned him a shot at next season now though even if we go down, so we'll just have to see how it goes.

Edited April 3, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[Radford]

Can't even begin to think about all the garbage we have to empty before we could even contemplate recruiting. We have well over 30 first team players. Absolute shambles, with so much well-earned money wasted. 

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Radford said:

Can't even begin to think about all the garbage we have to empty before we could even contemplate recruiting. We have well over 30 first team players. Absolute shambles, with so much well-earned money wasted. 

The money spent on Mahon and Bair seems like a total waste just now. £200k on players who, just now, look like they'll have zero impact on our season.

[tree house tam]

14 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

 then we have a core that is better than the table suggests. 

Calling pish on that.

Our forwards for next season are Bair, E2, May, MOH and Kane. Not one of them has shown anything to make me think they could score enough in this league next year.

Remove Hendry, Clark, Rooney, McCart and most probably Craig and Bryson and that's the spine of a team right there. If we stay up and it's still a big if, I have no confidence in the current regime being able to rebuild the side,  their recruitment then subsequent integration into the team is baffling. 

[RandomGuy.]

9 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Calling pish on that.

Our forwards for next season are Bair, E2, May, MOH and Kane.

I'd be amazed if Vertainen played for us still, even with his goal haul the other day.

Bair no idea, presumably he's getting the usual Davidson "they need 6 months to adapt"/"I need to brainwash strikers into thinking chasing shadows is more important than attacking" approach.

Could fully see him wanting to go with May, Kane, MOH and someone like Danny Mullen next season tbh.

[shibbydoo]

58 minutes ago, Radford said:

Not sure I can remember a season where there have been quite so many bad decisions. Yet, despite all that, about the only thing more soul-crushing than trying to watch St Johnstone play football (especially at home on that cow field) at the moment would be VAR interfering in any of the rare moments of excitement. 

Our results have improved but really only because we haven't been on the receiving end of decisions like the one that went against Livingston yesterday and Callum Hendry is capable of scoring goals (including penalties, which is worth pointing out when it comes to St Johnstone) now. 

Thought we played well at Livingston after the break but other than that, it's still pretty shit. But, in saying that, I think the challenge for the manager was to get towards 36 points and see where it left us. That meant around 30 points at the split and he's achieved that. 

Do I want to watch another season of Davidson-ball though? Very debatable.

Whatever happens we simply cannot go into a fresh season playing like this.

It's fucking awful stuff.

Something / someone needs changed.

[Mr Heliums]

Awful game of football, although the blame lies with Saints; Livingston were the side trying to play football yesterday and we stole that. I really can't see much improvement since the last time we played Livingston at McDiarmid, other than Hendry is clearly twice or three times the striker Kane is and we no longer have anyone quite as calamitous as Ambrose in defence (although Cleary threatened a couple of times).

Cifti, once more, did nothing and you have to sympathise with younger players like Bair or Vertainen before him who have been given nothing like this sort of leeway. I suppose you have to sympathise with the level of service he and Hendry were getting – hoofed balls from the back that they could only knock down. On the plus side, Clark had three or four great saves and Davidson did well enough in midfield. Other than that, not much to support the optimistic view that we'll be safe from automatic relegation by our own hands.

Thought Soto for Livingston looked really good and first time I've seen Nouble. He has a good touch for someone so tall. Forrest tried to do a bit too much on occasion, but I was jealous of how he always seemed able to get a decent cross in.

Referee was a joke, but fans of both clubs surely factored that in already.

[Cptn Hooch]

2 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

 

Thought Soto for Livingston looked really good

I thought I was the only one who thought he did alright. Livi fans don't seem to rate him but he had very little service and showed some real ability at times. It'll take time for him to develop the same understanding with Nouble and Forrest that Anderson has.

[monkfish]

1 hour ago, tree house tam said:

Calling pish on that.

Our forwards for next season are Bair, E2, May, MOH and Kane. Not one of them has shown anything to make me think they could score enough in this league next year.

Remove Hendry, Clark, Rooney, McCart and most probably Craig and Bryson and that's the spine of a team right there. If we stay up and it's still a big if, I have no confidence in the current regime being able to rebuild the side,  their recruitment then subsequent integration into the team is baffling. 

Would agreed with this, and would throw Murray Davidson into the mix, who at some point is going to fall apart and you're left again with a powderpuff midfield.

I wouldn't criticise Mahon coming in. We'd have had to replace McCart in the summer and this is just bringing in a replacement early instead of a panic signing in August, seems sensible to me.

Bair....who knows.

[Guest]

For the St Johnstone penalty, the initial free kick catches Davidson on the arm which stops it continuing on its path through to the Livi keeper. That should've been a foul at that point. It was completely missed by Sportscene and I wouldn't have expected anyone to have seen it from pitchside or the stands either. I watched the live video stream, though, and on it this Davidson handball was replayed multiple times.

Anyway, I accept refereeing errors as part of football and there were multiple yesterday so I don't care about this. Just saying out of interest.

[Valentino Bolognese]

5 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Would agreed with this, and would throw Murray Davidson into the mix, who at some point is going to fall apart and you're left again with a powderpuff midfield.

I wouldn't criticise Mahon coming in. We'd have had to replace McCart in the summer and this is just bringing in a replacement early instead of a panic signing in August, seems sensible to me.

Bair....who knows.

Mahon only looks like a waste because we've not had any injured or suspended CBs. If we lost one Davidson would be called out for not signing cover.  Also as you say we'll need to replace McCart. I'm going against the grain here and giving the club credit for that. Also willing to say that given it was the January window and we didn't land some targets that seemed good options to me, I don't think they did all that badly. 

If we stay up at least there's been some sign of backing the manager and with a lot of wages being freed up hopefully we can go back to smaller but higher quality squad with some youngsters starting to come through. We'll still have the problem of a defence-minded manager.

I wonder if we'll see Bair out on loan next season, with E2 recalled as backup to Kane and A N Other. 

[Cptn Hooch]

10 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

For the St Johnstone penalty, the initial free kick catches Davidson on the arm which stops it continuing on its path through to the Livi keeper. That should've been a foul at that point. It was completely missed by Sportscene and I wouldn't have expected anyone to have seen it from pitchside or the stands either. I watched the live video stream, though, and on it this Davidson handball was replayed multiple times.

Anyway, I accept refereeing errors as part of football and there were multiple yesterday so I don't care about this. Just saying out of interest.

I've watched the penalty incident again and not only does it strike May's arm but he looks offside too...how many decisions need to go against us?

[tree house tam]

11 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I've watched the penalty incident again and not only does it strike May's arm but he looks offside too...how many decisions need to go against us?

It definitely went against you if it hit May while he was in the second row of the dugout. Never picked that up at the time as well.

[Zamora Fan]

It's a ridiculously spurious scenario. Why stop there? Let's assume Mrs Martindale then doesn't go to Tesco because she has to stop Davey smashing the house up, she then doesn't buy the winning Euromillions ticket which he would have used to eventually fund scientific study into Cancer cures. Clancy has now caused untold human suffering and millions of, what could have been, preventable deaths.

What a c**t.

Still chuckling at this. What an absolute roaster. If you’re needing a penalty out of absolutely nothing to snatch a draw at one of the worst sides in the league … maybe you need to look a bit harder at how you set up your team. Not like it’s a great sporting injustice that they didn’t get that pen, Cleary just falls over with no one near him? We sat back and let Livi attack us under v little pressure for 85 mins and all they have to show for it are a handful of comfortable saves for Clark.

Whining dicks like Martindale are the reason we’ll end up with VAR stinking up the place and checking every single goal for potential handballs or toes offside in the distant build up, and I can’t be arsed with it.