Vale of Leithen

[Nigel Blackwell]

Got it. Good luck Fraserburgh and Buckie in that case.

[jamamafegan]

Forget everything you've just written! [emoji4]
Vale of Leithen* will finish bottom of the LL, and will be relegated. Cowdenbeath* will finish bottom of L2, and Gretna* will finish second bottom of the LL.
Gretna will also be relegated if Fraserburgh/Buckie are promoted.
The winner of the play-off between Penicuik/Linlithgow/Tranent v St Cuthbert Wanderers v Auchinleck/Pollok**/Darvel will be promoted to the LL.
*to be mathematically confirmed on Saturday ** if licensed

Thanks for that. Gretna being relegated as well would be epic.

[Marten]

Thanks for that. Gretna being relegated as well would be epic.

Although I have nothing against Bonnyrigg and I would be happy for them to get promoted, Fraserburgh or Buckie promoting would be good for speeding up change in the LL. Gretna and VOL being replaced by Cowden and the tier 6 champions would definitely make the league more attractive and increases the chance of a vote to increase relegation passing in the near future.

[jamamafegan]

Although I have nothing against Bonnyrigg and I would be happy for them to get promoted, Fraserburgh or Buckie promoting would be good for speeding up change in the LL. Gretna and VOL being replaced by Cowden and the tier 6 champions would definitely make the league more attractive and increases the chance of a vote to increase relegation passing in the near future.

Yeah I don’t mind Bonnyrigg. I was already wanting the HL champs to go up but would have settled for Bonnyrigg. The stakes have changed now though, 100% behind the HL champs.

[Che Dail]

24 minutes ago, Marten said:

35 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

Thanks for that. Gretna being relegated as well would be epic.

Although I have nothing against Bonnyrigg and I would be happy for them to get promoted, Fraserburgh or Buckie promoting would be good for speeding up change in the LL. Gretna and VOL being replaced by Cowden and the tier 6 champions would definitely make the league more attractive and increases the chance of a vote to increase relegation passing in the near future.

More relegation spots from the Lowland League would be more likely if the number of promotion spots to the SPL was increased. 

If 3 or 4 clubs moved up and down every season they will quickly find their level.  But again, self-interest and collective refusal to adopt progressive change for the betterment of the game prevails.  

The block is caused by the tier(s) above.  

 

[Marten]

More relegation spots from the Lowland League would be more likely if the number of promotion spots to the SPL was increased. 
If 3 or 4 clubs moved up and down every season they will quickly find their level.  But again, self-interest and collective refusal to adopt progressive change for the betterment of the game prevails.  
The block is caused by the tier(s) above.  
 

I agree the SPFL should open up, but two wrongs don't make a right and that is absolutely no excuse to stop more relegation from the LL. Set the right example and you have an argument for others to follow your lead.

[Burnieman]

14 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

More relegation spots from the Lowland League would be more likely if the number of promotion spots to the SPL was increased. 

If 3 or 4 clubs moved up and down every season they will quickly find their level.  But again, self-interest and collective refusal to adopt progressive change for the betterment of the game prevails.  

The block is caused by the tier(s) above.  

 

The block is caused by the LL.   They can set an example to the SPFL.  Tier 6 and below already have ample pro/rel and when it settles down next season it will be 3 up/down throughout, LL can follow that example and then say to the SPFL "over to you".

In the meantime, they just look like hypocrites to the SPFL.

[FairWeatherFan]

Anyone that expects change in Scottish football coming top-down hasn't been paying attention. The best attempt at change to the SPFL Playoff has always been creating a proper pyramid below it and the HL/LL champion constantly winning promotion.

 

 

[jamamafegan]

Anyone that expects change in Scottish football coming top-down hasn't been paying attention. The best attempt at change to the SPFL Playoff has always been creating a proper pyramid below it and the HL/LL champion constantly winning promotion.
 
 

Yep. I support the promotion candidate in the play-off every year. The more teams that come up the stronger the case for opening up relegation spots.

[Marten]

3 hours ago, Burnieman said:

The block is caused by the LL.   They can set an example to the SPFL.  Tier 6 and below already have ample pro/rel and when it settles down next season it will be 3 up/down throughout, LL can follow that example and then say to the SPFL "over to you".

In the meantime, they just look like hypocrites to the SPFL.

Yep... Let's be honest, if you look at the LL from the point of view of the SPFL, they don't exactly look good. First of all, they voted for these useless B-teams twice, while the SPFL has rejected these very teams time and time again. And let's be honest, the aim of the OF isn't to stay in the LL, but to jump to the SPFL, so the SPFL won't look kindly on this with their rejections in mind. Then, the SPFL will see that the LL isn't a very attractive league to drop in to if you look at some of the teams currently there. They will also notice there are loads of clubs that are much bigger than the smaller LL teams in tier 6, yet the LL refuse to properly open up to them.

Taking all of that together, would they really be convinced now is the moment for increasing relegation? On the other hand, if the B-teams were kicked out and were replaced by promoting all 3 tier 6 champions, followed by (at least) 2 up/2 down you could within a few years have a much more attractive LL, one they can't really ignore anymore, giving them a very strong argument for more relegation from the SPFL.

[craigkillie]

16 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

Is there now no longer going to be a play-off between the Vale and one of the tier 6 clubs?

There has never been a relegation play-off in the Lowland League.

[It's Me]

4 hours ago, Burnieman said:

The block is caused by the LL.   They can set an example to the SPFL.  Tier 6 and below already have ample pro/rel and when it settles down next season it will be 3 up/down throughout, LL can follow that example and then say to the SPFL "over to you".

In the meantime, they just look like hypocrites to the SPFL.

It’s not really the LL though is it. Their champion club doesn’t get up automatically but they have automatic relegation? What more do you want? Has the WOsFl actually completed a full season yet? 
 

How many teams below the LL actually have a chance of being promoted? I don’t agree with colts teams though. 

[Marten]

2 minutes ago, It's Me said:

It’s not really the LL though is it. Their champion club doesn’t get up automatically but they have automatic relegation? What more do you want? Has the WOsFl actually completed a full season yet? 
 

How many teams below the LL actually have a chance of being promoted? I don’t agree with colts teams though. 

Simple, a reasonable relegation structure, which would be at the very least 2 automatic places. Anything less is indefensible.

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, It's Me said:

It’s not really the LL though is it. Their champion club doesn’t get up automatically but they have automatic relegation? What more do you want? Has the WOsFl actually completed a full season yet? 
 

How many teams below the LL actually have a chance of being promoted? I don’t agree with colts teams though. 

It's nice that the LL have the excuse of the WoSFL. Otherwise what cover would they have for denying increased promotion for 4+ years and lowering the odds of promotion from 1/2 to 1/3 for the EoSFL and SoSFL.

EDIT: Also i'm sure the old EoSFL are making great mates in the newer look EoSFL. Decent chance the WoS champion gets promoted this season. Which means a +1 relegation from the Premier and 1 less spot in the First.

Situation repeats itself next season with a WoS Champion going up and a East club relegated from the Lowland: +1 Relegation from the Premier, +1 Relegation from the First, +1 Relegation from the Second.

Edited April 7, 2022 by FairWeatherFan

[Burnieman]

15 minutes ago, It's Me said:

It’s not really the LL though is it. Their champion club doesn’t get up automatically but they have automatic relegation? What more do you want? Has the WOsFl actually completed a full season yet? 
 

How many teams below the LL actually have a chance of being promoted? I don’t agree with colts teams though. 

It is.

The issue of relegation from and promotion to the LL is unconnected with their beef with the SPFL.  The three tier 6 feeder leagues have no influence whatsoever over that, and therefore should not be held back or penalised because of it.

The LL can deal with the tier 5/6 issue right now, and set an example.  Almost all the EoS Premier is licenced, the top clubs in the WoS Premier are either licenced or about to be.

[It's Me]

14 minutes ago, Marten said:

Simple, a reasonable relegation structure, which would be at the very least 2 automatic places. Anything less is indefensible.

I agree, but that structure should also ensure the LL and HL champ goes up automatically too. That seems a fair result for everyone. Hopefully the leagues can make it happen. 

[Burnieman]

1 minute ago, It's Me said:

I agree, but that structure should also ensure the LL and HL champ goes up automatically too. That seems a fair result for everyone. Hopefully the leagues can make it happen. 

That issue has nothing to do with the EoS/WoS/SoS.

[It's Me]

1 minute ago, Burnieman said:

It is.

The issue of relegation from and promotion to the LL is unconnected with their beef with the SPFL.  The three tier 6 feeder leagues have no influence whatsoever over that, and therefore should not be held back or penalised because of it.

The LL can deal with the tier 5/6 issue right now, and set an example.  Almost all the EoS Premier is licenced, the top clubs in the WoS Premier are either licenced or about to be.

Ok so three tier six feeder leagues are not all being hampered. You have said only the top clubs in the West have or will have a license. So it’s a bit unfair to say all these leagues are affected when the reality is most of these leagues don’t have licensed clubs. 

[It's Me]

Just now, Burnieman said:

That issue has nothing to do with the EoS/WoS/SoS.

But it does. Because it’s a pyramid. So you only want change at the bit that affects the tier 6 leagues? 

[Burnieman]

2 minutes ago, It's Me said:

Ok so three tier six feeder leagues are not all being hampered. You have said only the top clubs in the West have or will have a license. So it’s a bit unfair to say all these leagues are affected when the reality is most of these leagues don’t have licensed clubs. 

How on earth do you work that out?  

This season the three Champion clubs have to play-off for only 1 promotion spot, they will all be licenced.  Come this time next year, even more WoS clubs will be licenced. If the EoS Champion does not win the 3 way play-off, an extra club in the EoS Premier will have to be relegated to accommodate Vale of Leithen (so 5 down).