Energy Prices

[Alert Mongoose]

Out of interest is there anything to stop you massively overstating your reading now (and paying the heavy bill but a lower rate) then in say December going back to them and advising them you had the wrong glasses on and it should actually have been a lower figure? The theory being you would then not get a bill at the higher rate.

[Todd_is_God]

21 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

Out of interest is there anything to stop you massively overstating your reading now (and paying the heavy bill but a lower rate) then in say December going back to them and advising them you had the wrong glasses on and it should actually have been a lower figure? The theory being you would then not get a bill at the higher rate.

Yes. It's fraud.

[Alert Mongoose]

24 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Yes. It's fraud.

So anytime someone put a transposition error in a meter submission they have been charged with fraud?

Edited August 16, 2022 by Alert Mongoose

[101]

14 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

So anytime someone put a transposition error in a meter submission they have been charged with fraud?

Tbf with all their fat profits it would suprise me if a chunk went on legal fees to make sure we paid them every penny they are owed, however if they owe us money usually story of getting blood out a stone applies.

[Halbeath Raith Rover]

30 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

So anytime someone put a transposition error in a meter submission they have been charged with fraud?

Putting aside any legal or moral questions, I think the issue is likely to be that it would be easy to slightly overstate usage, but wouldn't make a significant difference to the bill.

 

If you get to the point where you are giving a reading so much higher it is making a big difference to the bill, it's going to stand out and could be picked up.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Halbeath Raith Rover

[strichener]

13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Oh the basic maths is simple enough. The problem is all the unknowns such as how long it'll take to heat the room, is my boiler working at 30kW regardless of what setting I put it to or if I switch all the other radiators to OFF and only have the one room being heated. Then there's the fact that oil holds heat a lot longer than water so when I turn the oil heater off it'll stay hot longer than the radiators. It's anything but simple and I'm going to have to do a bit of experimenting over a few days. The rooms we'll be in are small and well insulated so even a 2.5kW heater won't take more than an hour to heat it sufficiently. Of course all of this also depends on how cold it gets. It's anything but simple when you chuck all that in.

Just to clarify one thing in this.  The heat retention of oil v water isn't a factor as the heat will be released into the room regardless.

[superbigal]

the one I signed up to a week or so ago saves me money.  A significant amount.

Not at the moment it is not. Hugely above current cap.

[Left Back]

7 minutes ago, superbigal said:

4 hours ago, Left Back said:

the one I signed up to a week or so ago saves me money.  A significant amount.

Not at the moment it is not. Hugely above current cap.

Yes it is.  I get to charge my car at a significantly reduced rate.  I’ve worked out this tariff will save me about £150 over the year even if the price cap is frozen.

[Todd_is_God]

1 hour ago, Alert Mongoose said:

So anytime someone put a transposition error in a meter submission they have been charged with fraud?

Oh good, we are back in March with this debate

[Aufc]

Sorted out a new contract for my work. Last years bill was £18k and this year is going to be £62k. Madness

[DA Baracus]

5 minutes ago, Aufc said:

Sorted out a new contract for my work. Last years bill was £18k and this year is going to be £62k. Madness

For those businesses who don't die, guess who gets to foot the bill?!

[Aufc]

For those businesses who don't die, guess who gets to foot the bill?!

Yip. We are lucky in that we can afford it. However, we have just added another price increase to our customers. I would imagine that the industry will begin to slow down as everything just becomes too expensive and the recession will hit. Which is what the Bank of England is aiming for

[strichener]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Yes but the temperature differential won't be felt as much and that matters in a cold room because it won't leave you feeling like you need to stick the heating back on again within 5 minutes of switching it off (like you do with air heaters for example).

Slowing down the dissipation of heat absolutely makes a difference. It'll make the room feel warmer for longer.

No it won't.  Only insulation will slow down the dissipation of heat from with the room.  If the heat is slower in dissipating from the heater then the room will take longer to heat before it switches off.  

It's logic like this that sees people being conned by "super efficient" Fischer heaters.  If you have electric heating it is a simple case of each kW of power will give you a kW of heat regardless of the method of heating.

[Left Back]

18 minutes ago, strichener said:

No it won't.  Only insulation will slow down the dissipation of heat from with the room.  If the heat is slower in dissipating from the heater then the room will take longer to heat before it switches off.  

It's logic like this that sees people being conned by "super efficient" Fischer heaters.  If you have electric heating it is a simple case of each kW of power will give you a kW of heat regardless of the method of heating.

This is the crux of it.  GCH isn’t as efficient as electric but a third of the cost more than makes up for the 95% efficiency of a modern boiler and the heat loss as the water moves through the system.  You could also say that heat isn’t lost as it’s still being largely dissipated into your home.

[MuckleMoo]

It's getting to the point where there is no option other than the government getting involved and setting a price cap, not only for residential users but businesses as well. The economy is going to be absolutely decimated if they don't

[Busta Nut]

So what happens here?

Are they gonna just completely f**k half of the countries credit rating basically? Cos That's what's gonna happen.

[Todd_is_God]

Auxilione now predicting April's cap will be £5,600 and are warning European gas wholesale prices could still rise by another 60%

I simply cannot foresee a situation any longer where the cap is allowed to rise inline with market price. With the energy companies now pushing for a solution (remember the UKGov asked them to, and their plan is backed by private banks and does not require any direct UKGov funding) a cap freeze is likely IMO, but doing so at the current level is unlikely. Somewhere between the current cap and October's £3,600 is probably more realistic, with the £400 grant maintained and additional help available to those in most need.

[Left Back]

15 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Auxilione now predicting April's cap will be £5,600 and are warning European gas wholesale prices could still rise by another 60%

I simply cannot foresee a situation any longer where the cap is allowed to rise inline with market price. With the energy companies now pushing for a solution (remember the UKGov asked them to, and their plan is backed by private banks and does not require any direct UKGov funding) a cap freeze is likely IMO, but doing so at the current level is unlikely. Somewhere between the current cap and October's £3,600 is probably more realistic, with the £400 grant maintained and additional help available to those in most need.

If this does happen we're going to get royally fucked by this lot for decades to pay it back.

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, Left Back said:

If this does happen we're going to get royally fucked by this lot for decades to pay it back.

Define "Royally fucked"

And if it doesn't happen, what, the average bill is in the region of £5-6k over the next two years?

Dunno about you but personally I'd rather a levy of a few hundred a year was added to my bills a few years down the line than have to allocate £5k more for energy next year, on top of everything else going up in price.

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Define "Royally fucked"

And if it doesn't happen, what, the average bill is in the region of £5-6k over the next two years?

Dunno about you but personally I'd rather a levy of a few hundred a year was added to my bills a few years down the line than have to allocate £5k more for energy next year, on top of everything else going up in price.

We'll be paying back significantly more than we "borrowed".  Every trick in the book will be used to keep this levy in place long after the money is repaid so as well as lining the pockets of the producers we'll now be lining the pockets of the suppliers and the bankers (again).